Oxford and Cambridge current students

[sandybayley]

Nearly filled up the old one...

The lack of equality across colleges is appalling. DS2's college has said they're not accepting individual requests to return anymore until the government make their announcements about what students might be allowed to do.

DS2 (and DS1) believe that this means everyone is expecting that all students will be allowed back but I'm really worried that it really means they've both 'missed the boat' to apply individually to return and will be left stuck at home for another 6 months...and counting.

I wonder how much longer students will have to wait until their fates are decided and how the universities will manage the disparity between those allowed back and those at home for almost the whole of their first year and of course those from other years also?

For those travelling from abroad, it must be even harder to have so little certainty and so little notice about whether they can return or not. Flyonawalk, I hope there's some clarity for your DS very very soon.

I'm also surprised at the lack of supportive input from tutors/ supervisors asking regularly how students are coping stuck at home without any social life or contact with peers etc etc.

DD’s supervisor last term was amazingly supportive , every week, from her kitchen table and great uplifting pep talk at the end. College were keen to stress that if at any point academic work was suffering they wanted to know and rv stay at home order. It’s a shame there isn’t uniformity but I bet there are more examples of good practice that no one bothers to post about, than bad.
Hoping for news for all ASAP , particularly internationals

I agree with mutter, the inequity is appalling.

It would seem that colleges have a lot of latitude in how they interpret the rules, with some allowing virtually everyone back and some allowing virtually none. I don't understand what is motivating the stricter colleges. Surely it's in their best interests to have engaged, happy, motivated students who are able to achieve their full potential. I'm beginning to suspect that some colleges don't even like their students.

I'm not sure where DS's college stands. He thinks he's taking the train back on Monday and he is full of plans for getting back into university rugby training. His expectations are somewhat at odds with what I'm hearing here.

I like the positivity from the DC who are assuming Trinity will happen as it should. Surely they will be proved right! Thank you @mutterphore for kind thoughts. DS is philosophical and assumes it will all work out - it’s his parents who find it hard to have no news!

I am so grateful for this supportive thread.
It is an impossible situation for internationals re planning flights - you gave my sympathy @Flyonawalk.
DD is bouncing off the walls waiting fir Monday - even though she is going back to finish two pieces of coursework and revise for finals. Her tutor has been great but is actually at a different college to DD and is as baffled by the inequity as we are on this thread.
DS is despondent at being left waiting for further information. There is no way he would tell his tutor that his work is suffering though which is frustrating for DH and I.

May I derail, please, for a quick student finance question?

For ds we paid accommodation and he took the maintenance loan (lowest level due to parental income), but now he says that none of his friends with similar parental profiles took the loan

I have just done dd’s student finance and I don’t want to be out of step with the general herd.

I am asking on here because Oxbridge accomm a bit cheaper than other institutions so no huge deal to pay - but do other people give their dcs money and not take the maintenance loan?

Cambridge V-C has given up on waiting for the government and has emailed the students this morning.

"Despite our hope that the UK government might indicate how the easing of restrictions on 12 April would apply to universities, no further details have been made available about the return of students for in-person learning and teaching. Like all of you, I am disappointed by this uncertainty.

It now appears unlikely that guidance concerning in-person teaching at universities will change before Monday 17 May, at the earliest. In light of this, the University’s policy on returning students remains unchanged:

For students who have been given permission to return for in-person teaching for practical or practice-based subjects, as well as for research students, this permission continues.
For students who have previously been given permission to return by their College for reasons of health, or access to study spaces and facilities, this permission continues.
Other students who have not previously been given permission, but who wish to return for Easter Term, are encouraged to apply to their College for permission to return if they need to do so for reasons of health (including mental health) or to access study space and facilities.

While we continue to believe that for many students studying at Cambridge will be the best and preferred option, we recognise that others (for example, international students and those with increased susceptibility to infectious diseases) may wish to remain elsewhere. We will continue to support them and ensure they can complete their studies remotely if they so choose...
The government has promised to issue additional advice “at the end of the Easter holidays”, and we will continue to update you as soon as more information is available."

@IrmaFayLear
DS got the minimum maintenance loan.
His outgoings have been minimal (even during the term when he was actually at university) but the loan makes financial sense for us.

That reads to me like an essentially open invitation to return Ironoaks.. Good.

Yes, ds didn’t spend much. He was in a fully-catered college and wasn’t one for fine living... and definitely not fine clothes

Yes DS has got that email. I said he should ask to go back if he wanted to — like everyone else, he is miserable at the moment, and it sounds as though they’re asking the students to knock at an open door. But DS says he doubts he’d be less depressed at Cambridge — unsurprising, given the remorseless grimness of his only term there.

😥

DS has not taken a maintenance loan - we pay accommodation and he has an allowance term time and a (smaller) allowance out of term. He doesn't spend much but has the benefit of savings accrued from before the pandemic.

@hobbema

That reads to me like an essentially open invitation to return Ironoaks.. Good.

It's quite carefully worded. I expect it will now be up to students to request permission and then be up to individual colleges to decide whether they grant that permission; potentially very different between colleges.

My heart goes out to those DC who have only had one grim term at O or C. Hopefully this coming term will be very different, if only because the weather will be so much better and people will be able to meet outside, regardless of any stupid and unnecessary rules about sticking to households.

@IrmaFayLear, I have done several straw polls of people of a certain "parental profile". Some don't ask their DC to take out loans because they don't want them to be in debt, whereas some take out the minimum loan because it makes more financial sense (particularly if the DC in question might not be a high earner after graduating). We opted for the minimum loan approach but DS does grumble a bit. If it weren't for the grumbling I might be tempted to pay off the loan for him.

Well at least the VC has done something proactive. Best and preferred option is fairly explicit, doesn’t sound like much persuasion would be needed. Colleges may be planning to contact their students directly ?

Up until now, neither DC has taken the maintenance loan and we pay their rent. They both had savings from regular holiday work/paid internships and managed ok. Neither have had any work for a year (apart from DS who did a little tennis coaching last summer) and DH was recently made redundant so we have asked them to apply for maintenance loans for this term.

Thanks for this Ironoaks. Not the best news really as it means that only some students at some colleges will be allowed to return and others not allowed and it'll be a real lottery. I wonder if Oxford will follow suit and contact their students today also?

Does anyone know the best way to word a request to return that's most likely to elicit even a 'strict' college allowing a student to go back? Honestly, the inequity continues apace!

My daughter and son both have maximum maint. and tuition loans. because there is no other option for us. I think you can support your DC in any way that you see fit and that brings benefit to them but it does them no harm to understand the value of what they are receiving and to understand that most people do not have access to the support that they have from home. I hope that they see your support as great generosity and not as what is normal nor a "given".

I am very grateful for the loans, otherwise they would not be at O or C , or anywhere else!

DS has a similar email to the above from his college. Phew!
@PantTwizzler, I am so sorry to read of your DS’s ongoing struggles. It is horrible and mentally exhausting when your child is unhappy.
I am sure my DS would be happier in college (he has become uncharacteristically obsessed with work at home) but news that he can return seems to have thrown him into confusion.

I’m beginning to wonder whether DS would be better off at another university. He says he wishes he’d never applied to Cambridge.

@PantTwizzler
Does he have a sense of how much his difficulties are due to his learning differences and how much is due to the C. teaching style?

@PantTwizzler:
I think Cambs is a very rarified atmosphere, suits DD1 (also has LD-dyslexia) but would not have suited DS1 at all.
It's never too late to change.....and it's awful to think of his unhappiness, I hope you can find an answer with him. It must be very difficult for you all.

@Ironoaks good question. I think it’s the sheer volume of work which is the biggest problem. And having everything online makes it far harder for him to keep up. The thing he’s best at — the practical work — has been completely excluded, for obvious reasons.
He feels that even in non-covid times, he’d do nothing but work.
I want him to do whatever is best for him — I’m just not sure if these things will gradually work themselves out.

That's so sad pants. Hopefully a lovely summer term will allow him to change his mind, but if not, I guess you have some thinking to do.

You make a very good point fool and I don't think I've done a great job with my DC. Both DH and I grew up in families where there wasn't a lot of extra money and so feelings of entitlement just weren't an issue. Our DC are growing up in a more financially comfortable situation and my way of handling this is to tell them over and over how lucky they are and to avoid being too generous when it comes to extra cash, presents etc. It's not the same though and I think they are the poorer (no pun intended) for it.

It's a difficult position, PantTwizzler. One of DDs pals left after the first year, after some combination of getting behind/finding she really didn't like some of the engineering disciplines, but she did find out what she liked and did better in. I don't think she had any difficulty finding a place elsewhere at a good redbrick on a non-general eng course doing just the aspect she'd taken to. Last I heard she was doing fine.

Honestly, it may be best for him to make a positive move to say, this isn't right for me, and find something that fits him better. He'll have learned a lot for sure, even though it's been a difficult experience. There's absolutely no shame in deciding to take a different path.