No uni return til Aug/Sept

[Newgirls]

So Edin and St A have said no f2f teaching til next academic year (apart from med and some post-grad) and students should not be there unless v specific needs. Very sad that this cohort are going through this. I assume English unis will follow?

London is literally awash with student accommodation in particular. Lots of people / investors in this type of accommodation going to lose their shirts if students stay home on mass. Personally I don’t think that will happen but might do the next couple of years

@sashagabadon

I would like to hear uni leaders on the airwaves lobbying for students / staff to get vaccinated by August. It might happen anyway so an easy win for them and if not, it starts the public debate on why it is important and throws light on how students are missing out. Quite honestly listening to my daughter and her friends they all plan to defer to 2022 if all they will be offered is sitting in a poky room with on line lessons. I also have a niece who is a current first year, back in her family home and having a pretty crap time. She is thinking of deferring her second year and spending the year earning money instead in her supermarket job as it will be more productive and she has no real incentive to start her second year come September as she has not enjoyed her course or made any proper friends. I don’t blame her!

Yes me too - baffles me that this sector isn’t fighting for this. Possibly as you say it will happen anyway.

I think this academic year won’t see f2f as some have already said this

If government rules allow, my department will be teaching f2f for term 3 in this academic year. Plans to do so have been formally approved by the university.

@sashagabadon

London is literally awash with student accommodation in particular. Lots of people / investors in this type of accommodation going to lose their shirts if students stay home on mass. Personally I don’t think that will happen but might do the next couple of years

Landlords have their money for this year but I imagine they will want unis open too. In all cities. They might influence tory Gov more than protecting catering staff to be honest..,

"Quite honestly listening to my daughter and her friends they all plan to defer to 2022 if all they will be offered is sitting in a poky room with on line lessons."

I wonder if universities are researching this at the moment - and the likely deferral rate amongst this years first years. (Though harder for them if they have already signed private rental contracts for next year)

Prestigious unis will still be full enough. Less prestigious might struggle with numbers. Some have deferred or dropped out from last year. I think drama/music/film etc course might struggle? At least this coming year there will be more opportunity for travel perhaps or zero hour jobs than last year.

"I think it will depend on how fast education alternatives pop up."

Yes, that, and how fast employers go back to not requiring a degree for many post 6th form careers. That process is interactive, and quite slow though - the increasing number of graduates meant more employers required a degree, so that the incentive to go to university increased, so that.... - so to reverse it would not be quick. I think you may be right that alternative routes to a degree may be a more important.

If there is no more ftf teaching at all this year will be interesting to see what the impact is on university acceptances. I seem to remember similar comments last year, and then there turned out to be no shortage of students! Difference this year may be that Yr 13s can look at what has happened over this academic year and it would be fair to say that it is not wholly attractive. The really critical factor though I suppose is what is the alternative?

I wonder if universities are researching this at the moment - and the likely deferral rate amongst this years first years. (Though harder for them if they have already signed private rental contracts for next year)

Of course they are. Universities monitor applications very closely anyway!

I'm actually doing some wider research on this at the moment- small scale at the moment but likely to become a much bigger project.

So far I'm finding that :
Staff have told me ....
Applications are down ( but not massively )from some schools /colleges but staff predict than many of them will end up going to university when they struggle to get a job or apprenticeship. Clearing could be busy this year.

More students are applying to local universities as they'd rather be at home if teaching is online

There has been a significant increase in applications to health related courses - particularly nursing.

Plus I've had nearly 200 student responses to my survey and 75% have said that the current situation has not influenced their decision to apply to university. Those that said it had influenced them only one said they plan to defer with all the others saying they changed their choice of institution.
I'll be interviewing students soon so that will give us a deeper insight.

I wonder if universities are researching this at the moment - and the likely deferral rate amongst this years first years. (Though harder for them if they have already signed private rental contracts for next year)

Of course they are. Universities monitor applications very closely anyway!

I'm actually doing some wider research on this at the moment- small scale at the moment but likely to become a much bigger project.

So far I'm finding that :
Staff have told me ....
Applications are down ( but not massively )from some schools /colleges but staff predict than many of them will end up going to university when they struggle to get a job or apprenticeship. Clearing could be busy this year.

More students are applying to local universities as they'd rather be at home if teaching is online

There has been a significant increase in applications to health related courses - particularly nursing.

Plus I've had nearly 200 student responses to my survey and 75% have said that the current situation has not influenced their decision to apply to university. Those that said it had influenced them only one said they plan to defer with all the others saying they changed their choice of institution.
I'll be interviewing students soon so that will give us a deeper insight.

Yes the alternatives. Some students will want to get on but won’t pay for accom. Some will give up. Some will take a year out and wait a while.

At some point Yale etc will offer an online option and students will buy that. Might not happen just yet though.

@Newgirls

Prestigious unis will still be full enough. Less prestigious might struggle with numbers. Some have deferred or dropped out from last year. I think drama/music/film etc course might struggle? At least this coming year there will be more opportunity for travel perhaps or zero hour jobs than last year.

I'm at a less prestigious university and our applications are up on this time last year 🤷🏼‍♀️

Yes last year students went as they were told there would be ftf teaching and gap year options were limited and they had no prior experience to compare to. That’s not the case for this years 18 year olds. They can see their older siblings/ cousins/ friends were lied to about this. It’s all over tic tok! They can see how much the uni’s are arguing about accommodation rent discounts, they can see people dropping out as their experience has not lived up to expectations , parents are also watching all this too. I know I am.

@TheJerkStore

I wonder if universities are researching this at the moment - and the likely deferral rate amongst this years first years. (Though harder for them if they have already signed private rental contracts for next year)

Of course they are. Universities monitor applications very closely anyway!

I'm actually doing some wider research on this at the moment- small scale at the moment but likely to become a much bigger project.

So far I'm finding that :
Staff have told me ....
Applications are down ( but not massively )from some schools /colleges but staff predict than many of them will end up going to university when they struggle to get a job or apprenticeship. Clearing could be busy this year.

More students are applying to local universities as they'd rather be at home if teaching is online

There has been a significant increase in applications to health related courses - particularly nursing.

Plus I've had nearly 200 student responses to my survey and 75% have said that the current situation has not influenced their decision to apply to university. Those that said it had influenced them only one said they plan to defer with all the others saying they changed their choice of institution.
I'll be interviewing students soon so that will give us a deeper insight.

Brilliant to hear about the interest in health courses. Let’s hope unis open up even more - we have always have a shortage of expensive medical degrees in the uk, preferring to buy in doctors.

Our local uni is very down on applications. They usually do well in clearing so we shall see. I have lots of friends who work there is I hope it’s ok but they are nervous.

It's a difficult one to call, but personally I wouldn't underestimate the desire of 18 year olds who've spent 2020 and half 2021 being cooped up with their families to think that living elsewhere, even with restraints and in a not-yet-fully-ideal situation, might be something they're ready for by September.

"More students are applying to local universities as they'd rather be at home if teaching is online"

Very interesting (and not just because I'd speculated that might be the case!!).

"personally I wouldn't underestimate the desire of 18 year olds who've spent 2020 and half 2021 being cooped up with their families to think that living elsewhere, even with restraints and in a not-yet-fully-ideal situation, might be something they're ready for by September."

Yes I do see that - it depends I suppose how much risk they think there is of their ending up being cooped up at home again - but paying £9k plus rental for it! (though I know a lot of univs have refunded hall fees)

I think students will be vaccinated sooner rather than later may even be by end of April. The NHS seemed to think it could double up its capacity so 3m plus first vaccinations a week is possible (30 million people in 10 weeks) . I can at least see students with lab work being vaccinated in order to return after Easter (25th April).

My dd is a first year but has been able to interact with her fellow course members because of the first term f2f tutorials. I would also say that the course has a very active WhatsApp group which also helps.. Lots of lively banter.

Fwiw, my dd does not think the course is not worth the fees (even though its online) , but she has up to 12 lectures a week, tutorials and workshops. The accommodation however is a crazy price, £174 a week self catering.... Her one townhouse brings in 56k rental income a year. Next years accommodation is 50 percent less and the house they are renting probably has more facilities and bigger rooms. I do feel that rent reviews are needed so that students pay a going rate for the area.

"More students are applying to local universities as they'd rather be at home if teaching is online"

Very interesting (and not just because I'd speculated that might be the case!!).

One college, which had over 600 students applying to university, said every single one had put the local uni down as an option. That's never happened before.

Many went home way before they were made to or indeed allowed to - the tier system sent many back home if they came from somewhere in a lower tier, and then the November lockdown saw a mass exodus, although teaching continued on campus throughout. Very many of them just didn't want it. Obviously the January situation was different as it was no longer their choice, but in Autumn, many were paying for halls and choosing not to stay.

I think at least some will want to at least try living in halls, and will go back and forth according to the situation and what they feel comfortable with. But can also see that lots will probably prefer to commute locally, if they're happy at home and feel they can work from there.

We don't teach in term 3 and all exams are online this year. We have also been told to expect online teaching in the new academic year (October). Whatever they do they'll no doubt not tell staff until a week before term and expect us all to have magically developed our courseloads in line with what they decide.

@TheMerrickBoy

It's a difficult one to call, but personally I wouldn't underestimate the desire of 18 year olds who've spent 2020 and half 2021 being cooped up with their families to think that living elsewhere, even with restraints and in a not-yet-fully-ideal situation, might be something they're ready for by September.

But all the 1st and 2nd year students we know are back at home cooped up with their families. My neice and nephew returned to their accommodation after Xmas but were back home by end of January as many of their flat mates did not return and they were lonely. It all sounds miserable and not something I’ll be encouraging my daughter to get involved in if she can wait a year.

The universities are not in a position to take a confrontational stand in relation to the government guidelines. Hard though it is to accept, now is a time for diplomacy.

The financial cost of the pandemic to universities has been catastrophically high. Government support would not only be welcome, for some universities it will be necessary for their survival.

But the restructuring regime proposed by the government in return for loans to bail out universities would see a fundamental change in the relationship between universities and the state that has existed for hundreds of years, and in what we think universities, and education more broadly are for.

The universities don't want that, in fact pretty much noone wants it, except for the current government and its increasingly right-wing advisors. So universities need to be in a position to negotiate, they need to be able to say 'look how we have worked with you, now you work with us'. It is understandable that parents on this thread are thinking only if the experiences of their own children, right now, but that is not the only thing universities need to think about.

Lobbying over government guidelines doesn’t need to be antagonistic though. If this is how the university’S think there is no hope. It can be in the spirit of, students are massively missing out, we risk drop outs , deferrals and fewer kids going to university because if the situation. What can we do to remedy this, how can we work together, what restrictions can be lifted ( particularly as students are such a low risk group!), can students be vaccinated before August.
I work in a hospital and we don’t sit back waiting for government guidelines. We make the changes to our services, we decide what is safe, government take their lead from us not the other way round. I appreciate university are not hospitals but they do know their institutions and they could be more pro active in making things better for students rather than this passive “well, what can you do, government guidelines”. Are there government guidelines that are unnecessary for example? Could they be removed?
I don’t see any of this thinking at all. One might even think it’s suits universities to carry on like this indefinitely

Representatives of the universities are in constant consultation with the government. What they cannot do, as others in this thread are suggesting, is openly campaign, demand or just flout the rules entirely.

Well it absolutely doesn't suit us to carry on like this indefinitely!