Another path to greatnesses

[chopc]

I woke up around 4:30 this morning and it hit me like a tonne of bricks. Couldn't get back to sleep so thought I will have a go and starting the new thread. Hope the title is not too cheesy

@Lalala86 that's a brilliant career story. Many congratulations to you on your hard work and achievements and thank you for sharing.

@Xenia I have always enjoyed reading your posts over the years and hearing about your dc and your island. I know you have always been very ambitious for them as most of us are for our dc. My point is maybe we need to rethink what defines ‘greatness’. Perhaps that’s a political issue.
As for housing, I don’t live in London so perhaps I fear less about my dc being able to afford decent housing. If I were a London resident I would be beating down the door of my local MP and councillors as it’s clear there had been a steady shift to serving the needs of Uber wealthy investors in property rather than the people who live in the city.
Incidentally, whilst I appreciate you are very successful Xenia (you are fairly recognisable) I am quite confident I could match you toe to toe on that front. I have been very fortunate to have enjoyed a wonderful career. The point is, that doesn’t matter to me. I am not at all competitive. I am happy though

@Pumpkintopf
Thank you. I always do on HE threads! (From certain posters) You have to be an intellectual academic expert to post I think! Or you are a not worthy of having an opinion. Even talking about ambition and money can be frowned on. However it’s what drives many DC towards the top universities. Why bother with Oxbridge if you don’t think it confers any advantage? Advantage in what? Many parents think the job market.

@chopc
It’s perfectly ok to be disappointed. People will tell you it doesn’t matter but to you, at this moment in time, it does. DC who really make the most of life get the most out of it wherever they go to university!

When DT’s were considering careers and university decisions, we advised (some of which they ignored)

• chose something you are interested in
• if you are good at your subject, this is an advantage but interest is more important
• chose a Uni based on the course and what the Uni can offer you ie sports, good social life (location and ranking of Uni less important)
• never live to work. Always work to live
• work life balance is important. Your family and friends should always be more important than your job.
• try and continue with your sports

@PresentingPercy ha, I agree - hence why I caveat-ed it as not a tale of adversity

Many of the universities being mentioned here will be just as good for people's DCs' careers as Oxbridge (or LSE) and I agree with those who said that the characteristics that gave DC a shot at Oxbridge will stand them in good stead anyway.

Well. My DD1 works with clients in family law. She sees her clients as very important. Depends what you do in life. Ranking of uni is very important but clearly only if if matters to recruiters. And it might not. But it could depending on career. So research thoroughly. One of the biggest issues is dc choosing a course and then finding job prospects are poor and they could have done better. The Sutton Trust lead the way in trying to get more under privileged DC to RG universities. Why do they bother if if doesn’t matter? The answer is: it does matter.

It’s preferable to get into the best university you possibly can. It isn’t fatal to successful career to get into a lower ranking university nor is it a guarantee of success to study at Oxbridge. Your daughter the barrister will no doubt know plenty of very successful barristers including silks and judges who didn’t have stellar university degrees and equally plenty of Oxbridge grads languishing in the doldrums.

I do admit however to never having owned an island. It was never on my list of priorities though, in all fairness.

DD applied to two U.K. Unis to study languages (applied to others outside U.K.) - St Andrews and York. Got offers from both. Got A’s at A level. She chose York as she liked the Uni better and graduated last year with a first. She started working for the EU in September.

DS applied to a variety of Uni’s for engineering. Went to Warwick because he liked the course best. Got a First last year and now doing his Masters at Warwick. Has a post grad job lined up in Singapore to start in September.

I went to LSE (many years ago). Only applied to London Unis as I wanted to stay in London. DH came to the U.K. at 21 on a scholarship so a different route to education.

None of our family made traditional (and some would say not sensible) decisions but luckily for us it worked out well for our careers and family life.

Of course you don’t need to go to Oxbridge to be “successful.” The impact on “career” genuinely didn’t even occur to me when DS was rejected from C last week - it was more that he wouldn’t get the experience of living among those lovely buildings for a few years! Superficial, I know .

The only people I know who went to Oxbridge are teachers and a couple of people in media /politics and that’s it, but then we never did mingle in this world of corporatism or the magic circle firms, etc. By far and away the most financially successful people I know went to unis such as Manchester or Birmingham - they just had the right idea at the right time and these are people who have sold companies for 1 billion plus; retired by their 40s, etc. These are not corporate people. In the future, the types of roles we do are likely to transform beyond recognition. If you’re talking about the legal profession - think about the likely impact of AI on that. The rate of change is likely to be phenomenal.

@Lalala86 enjoyed reading your career story

AI will have an impact but there will always be a space for real life lawyers in one form or another. Personally speaking I moved into another, even more competitive field a few years ago, wanting a challenge. I must be a masochist!

Agree with you @Parker231

Especially the bit about continuing with sports or any other interests they have which is one of my regrets from my Uni experience

@UnityUnited no doubt there is more than one way to skin a cat

My husband received the CV of one of my mum's family friends who was looking for a training contract. He went to Oxford for PPE - husband discarded him due to his 2:2 as he said that there were enough candidates with 2:1 or more

Unfortunately a 2:2 is not good enough for many grad careers these days. Oxbridge or not. It took my friend's DS a year to get a job with a 2:2 in Maths frm Cambridge

I also know a degree in Engineering from Warwick is one of the best degrees in that field. It is no back number to Oxford and very little would separate Warwick degree holders from Cambridge degree holders in Engineering. I cannot see why Engineering from Warwick would not be deemed as sensible or am I missing something? It is certainly traditional!

Yes DD knows plenty of Oxbridge educated barristers. She does not know anyone from non RG though. That is why university matters in some careers.

Presenting - yes the Warwick engineering degree is good but DS didn’t decide on Warwick because it was a higher ranking Uni.

So why did he choose Warwick? It’s seen as very very good in the engineering industry.

@PresentingPercy that is a shame. She mustn’t know very many senior counsel because lots of them didn’t attend Oxbridge. Sadly the Bar in recent years has moved towards recruiting middle-class and upwards, Oxbridge and just below types and I believe the Bar is a lot, lot poorer for it. The family Bar is an interesting choice too. Not hugely intellectually challenging and the smart people become solicitors and run their own firms. That’s where the really big money is.

Presenting - DS chose Warwick because he liked the campus, the sports facilities, he was impressed with a couple of the lecturers he met on a visit and the older brother of a friend had done the same course and gave a lot of information.

I would say very few Engineers don’t know Warwick is a top university so I guess he did really. And has the A levels to get there.

As DD is young she obviously does not know many top QCs. How could she? Women have not been allowed to be QCs until relatively recent times and the bar is more diverse now than it ever was. Women have a far better chance of getting to the top. It’s heavily skewed to Oxbridge and that’s always been the case.

Thanks for the slur against DDs intelligence too @UnityUnited. How very kind of you. You obviously don’t know what she earns or her Chambers but at least she has good manners.

No slur at all. I am just saying that it is less challenging in terms of law than other fields. If that’s how you want to interpret it then fine. I think you need to look at your own posts where you brag about your dd not knowing anybody from a non RG Uni if you want a lesson in unkindness.

Presenting - he knew where Warwick fits into the league tables but that wasn’t the reason he chose to go there. He has friends at other Unis who have done equally well.

As for the Bar being more diverse than ever, I know there are attempts to move in that direction but the reality is it is harder than ever for working-class people to qualify. It’s increasingly becoming a profession where in the early years a second income is needed in order to survive. That precludes lots of people who would make a excellent practitioners and leaves us with a Bar that is regressing into a middle-class stronghold. Just my personal view. Others may disagree.

Family law challenges in lots of ways. Most importantly getting on with clients. Having empathy. It’s helping real families.

Many times on this thread posters have said they want DC to be happy. They see this as going to Oxbridge. You can be happy elsewhere and achieve what you want elsewhere. Sadly being put down because you are intellectually less challenged and don’t know the right people is a MN hang up. Thank the Lord!