Any thoughts on the future of Erasmus?

[GlitterBiscuits]

I wondered if anyone had any insider knowledge on what might happen?
Anyone with DC thinking about doing it?

My DS wants to go to an EU Uni in September 2021. I think it's in jeopardy at the moment

Surely universities can arrange years abroad between themselves without Erasmus

I've been involved in setting up academic partnerships for these sorts of exchanges. Each one takes a minimum of 18 months to set up officially, and require a lot of extra labour - expensive hours of academics and professional staff (lawyers etc), plus the liaison with the Home Office re visas etc.

It can be done - but probably only by Russell Group/research-oriented universities with decent international reputations. And it will be far more expensive for UK students to participate in, I imagine. Given that English tuition fees don't actually cover the cost of most degrees.

Tuition fees in lots of EU countries are lower than in the UK though? Even international tuition fees in some EU countries are lower than UK home student fees.

I don't think they should abolish the year abroad. Or at least 6 months. Volunteering and aupair work are still possible.

Unfortunately a lot of students don't want to do it anymore- and they still get their degree without it.

It's also expensive for universities to set up and maintain.
This coupled with the loss of Erasmus really could kill it off.

My DC wants to do a gap year, so the year abroad is less vital for her. There really are loads of opportunities online if your priority is simply becoming fluent and being immersed in the culture.

My DD1 did an MFL degree at Warwick and relied heavily on Erasmus for her year abroad. She graduated in 2017.

Her younger sister, my DD3, is now a first year languages student at Cambridge. Erasmus would have been a large part of organising her year abroad, which will be the 2022 - 2023 academic year. She'll possibly now be looking more at South America (studies Spanish) for it than Europe.

I think it is very sad and monumentally stupid that Erasmus has gone. It really was a great scheme for broadening young people's education and horizons.

We really are a monumentally foolish nation, as already stated, with a monumentally foolish government.

@2magpies1pigeon

There is actually a considerable difference between the styles of teaching in most other EU countries than in the UK. The young people in my family (in Germany & France) are always amazed when I talk about teaching seminars with a maximum of 12 students, or the 1 to 1 tutorials which are a regular feature of the UK student experience. They are in lecture groups of hundreds where you need to get there early to actually get into the room, and their "seminars" (if they have them) are minimum of 50 students. And no opportunity for any 1 to 1 tutorials or assistance.

And my young relatives are at some of the most prestigious universities in their countries. No careers service, very few student activities, very little personalised tuition or "university experience" at all ...

This is what people don't know when they think that "EU fees are cheaper" is a killer argument. It isn't. You get what you pay for.

And, of course, other EU countries have governments who actually fund the teaching in undergraduate degrees. The UK government doesn't fund tuition in UG degrees in England and NI, at any rate.

I don't understand why you appear to be saying this to me, Queen. I know that the "university experience" is different at universities in other countries - though there's a lot of variety. I wasn't arguing that universities in the UK should be charging less. I was simply saying that the fact that universities in the EU charge a lot less than universities in the UK presumably means that having a Year Abroad at such a university may continue to be viable post-Brexit.

The year abroad ewhen not doing a MFL degree is different. It is not acquisition of a language. It is just teaching elsewhere. You will not be learning Italian in Australia, USA, NZ or Canada. Or German. Or Spanish. There are very limited opportunities for European language acquisition outside Europe. Yes, there is Canada for French and Spanish speaking countries in Latin America but the placements in their universities are few. For obvious reasons. Work and teaching possiblities are limited too.

The universities here will have to work with individual EU universities to build reciprocal arrangements. They do know the staff at them I think. It is unlikley EU students will not want to come here. Why would you not want to study in some of leading unviersities in the world? It is just so much more work for everyone when there was a very good system in place.

It is the cost of living you are not factoring into the cost of going abroad. In some cities it is very expensive. Yes, the university experience can be very different. Universities can be enormous as can teaching groups. However some, are world class, eg the French Grande Ecoles. They are not dissimilar from the very best here. Hoeever students often do not have to pass the exams in their university abroad. They are acquiring the language. It is a wholly different process to learning and having to pass every exam.

Also, how can you get a decent MFL degree without the year abroad? It is like taking away labvs from a year 3 scienvce student. You would not dream of it.

@presentingpercy you'd be surprised how many students don't do a year abroad as part of their MFL degrees. And their degree certificate doesn't mention this. It should only be missed in exceptional circumstances but according to mfl academics I know, this is far from the case.

You won't get the same fluency of language without the year abroad. I thought I some the language pretty well but I became almost as good as a native speaker by doing my year abroad. It's another nail in the coffin for the UK's already appalling language skills.

I hope they do manage to make reciprocal arrangements in time. I wonder how badly students from poor families will be affected by the loss of Erasmus funding.
I imagine that far fewer non-MFL students will spend a year abroad in the future.
However, there are other options available to those who just want to become fluent in a language - at least if they are primarily concerned with speaking rather than writing. It will be a very different experience, but it can still be a rewarding one. Assuming that UK universities are flexible and allow their students to make informal arrangements that allow them to travel round their chosen countries, living with local families and perfecting the language.

It is just so much more work for everyone when there was a very good system in place.

Indeed, as I outlined above.

And students who do a year abroad for other than language acquisition gain hugely - in experience, self-awareness, resilience, and broad competence in living! Do not underestimate the skills & self-sufficiency required to succeed in a vastly different education system and culture, even if the language is shared.

I've seen and taught the before & after - the year abroad is an extraordinary gift.

MFL students gain all of the above and perfect language skills. That’s why they should be valued. I certainly didn’t know students could get a MFL degree without it. Presumably not RG students? If you just need to study a bit more and don’t bother with immersion and the research you do arising from the year abroad, it seems a hollow degree when compared to the rich experiences of others. However not all degrees are the same I guess! I would assume French studies might be less demanding?

Cancelling Erasmus is the betrayal of a generation. It is disgusting.

Brexit is the betrayal of a generation ...

Yes. I agree.

My dd is studying MFL at a RG uni and all being well will start her year abroad in September. She will be in the final group to receive Erasmus funding. Her uni set up bilateral arrangements with EU unis back in 2017 in anticipation of Brexit.
Wonder if it's the only one??

Dp's dd has a funded place next year, all set up, no idea who is funding but university is covering costs

Erasmus fund up to 21/22 academic year. I’ve just looked at what my DDs firmer y I says and they don’t don’t give details but say they are committed to working with their partner universities in the future. That’s what I would expect. They say 450 students go abroad on Erasmus so it’s quite a lot of work for them to set up programmes I would think. No idea where funding would come from but EU students will be charged £20,000 pa for courses at her university: the international student fee. I wonder if this will dampen the appetite for foreign students coming here from the EU? So it all sounds very turbulent.

Former university

Her uni set up bilateral arrangements with EU unis back in 2017 in anticipation of Brexit.
Wonder if it's the only one??

Unlikely. My (RG) university has been identifying other European universities with which we have ongoing relationships since the awful result of the referendum. Ours are based on a combination of research and teaching relationships, drawn from academics' networks & connections, so they're very bespoke.

I think research-intensive universities will be OK in developing enriched programmes for undergrads & postgrads. It's the post-92 universities, with less to offer in terms of international reputation etc, whose students (generally drawn from less socio-economically advantaged classes) will miss out.

On the other hand, a lot of post-92 universities haven't invested in teaching languages other than English anyway ...