Medicine 2022 entry - How difficult is it really? *title edited by MNHQ at OP's request*

[notmedicmum]

I couldn't find a thread for 2022 entrants to medicine - maybe I didn't look hard enough! DD is in Year 12 and has wanted to do medicine since Year 10. It's only this year that we realise the enormity of actually getting a place. Not only do you have to have brilliant grades, you must also have done work experience, volunteered (both difficult in the current situation), got excellent BMAT/UCAT scores. Oh, and you also must have cycled from Land's End to John O'Groats to raise money for charity or climbed Kilimanjaro or won the Nobel Peace prize or found a cure for cancer (joking about the last two). How competitive is it REALLY? I'm not sure about the value of the last apart from being used as a selection tool as the unis get so many qualified applicants - and showing enterprise and drive. Apparently this sort of thing is even more important this year as getting work experience is very hard this year. How does climbing a mountain make you a better doctor anyway? And what can normal students do to improve their chances of success??

UCAT is starting a bit later than it used to in normal years, I think it used to start mid July. DS also wants an early August date. In case it helps to know, it is very easy to change dates if they don't feel ready as the date approaches.

I saw that the September BMAT was cancelled, don't really know why it was necessary as festivals are (currently) going ahead this summer and an exam session is a lot less risky! Last year some centres had real problems administering the BMAT, probably because they were paper exams in the past and done on line this time. Hope they don't have problems this year.

Have just written BOOK UKAT in my diary for 28th June. It feels weird to be writing stuff in instead of crossing things out last year!

Agree LaLaFlottes that it is good to get the UCAT out of the way sooner rather than later. My DS was relieved to have it done and know his score and have time over the holidays to really consider options. Some friends left it until late August/early September and wished they hadn't.

In case they have the option to do UCAT at home or in an exam centre again, what was the experience of people who did it at home? I am inclined to go for an exam centre so that if anything goes wrong with technology or internet it will not be such an issue to resolve. DS1 had a problem with the computer he was given at an exam centre in 2018 - the on screen calculator did not work in QR, a few precious minutes were lost whilst a member of staff tried and failed to help. At the time they offered him an opportunity to re-book, but his score was high enough so he did not take them up.

@Monkey2001 DD chose to sit hers in a test centre. The staff were so nice to her - really impressed. I think they gave her noise cancelling headphones and she found she could concentrate very well.

I think there were quite a lot of issues with sitting it at home - @opoponax am I remembering this correctly that they had to extend the deadline to accommodate people having to rebook their test at home because of technical issues? Maybe the majority at home were fine, but it sounded so stressful if it didn’t work.

I’d stick with your plan to use a test centre to be honest.

I would definitely recommend test centre too @LaLaFlottes. I recall that there were a number of bad experiences on our 2021 medicine thread with IT not working at home etc. My DS also had a really positive experience with the test centre and he was happy with his mark. Only small downside at the time was having to wear facemask for duration of test but that was last summer when it was all new and it is second nature to them all now.

@LaLaFlottes yes they did have to extend the deadline to accommodate rebooking due to tech issues.

Having lurked for a long while thinking I could do this alone, I'm hoping I can join you all for the white knuckle ride of a dc applying through UCAS for medicine.

How do I know it's a white knuckle ride ? Well, and I don't want to frighten anyone, it will be second time round for DS who is a classic example of how surprising the selection system can be. He has all top grades at GCSE, is predicted 4 x A* at A Level, school provided a very supportive reference and advised that his PS was eminently suited to his application. He's held positions of responsibility within school pupil hierarchy etc, has volunteered for years, done regular first aid courses, online virtual work experience (Corona Virus put paid to the actual real life experience) extensive reading relative to his application. Practice interviews at school went well including the MMI stuff. His UCAT was top 3%, his BMAT top 5-10%

He studied the course types, requirements, and various admission statistics to be able apply strategically to maximise his chances (and for a course he thought would suit him) or so he thought, got 3 interviews but was rejected post interview from all 3 choices.

School were confident he'd get offers and have no helpful suggestions as to what they think might have been the problem for him. They are warning all of the "aspiring medics" that competition for medicine places will be even greater next year and asking pupils to consider carefully before rejecting a fifth choice non-medicine offer.

@hardrightwal I'm so sorry to hear the outcome for your DS this year. It must feel so unfair when he is obviously such a strong candidate on paper and it sounds like he has followed all the right advice to the letter. It's great that he has decided to reapply though and there are some great success stories on here about second round applicants. Has your DS asked for interview feedback? I know they are still in the thick of the admissions at the moment but it could come a bit later but definitely worth asking. Has he managed to think about some gap year plans?

@hardrightwal sorry to hear it has not worked out for your DS this year. Obviously school is wrong about accepting a 5th choice, a gap year is a much better solution at this point. You have probably seen my DS1's story - 4 post interview rejections followed by 3 offers last year. People over on TSR who interview say that there is a real difference between Y13 applicants and gap year applicants, the confidence and maturity they are not aware of comes through. Hope the knock-backs don't put him off his stride for A levels.

If he gets 4A*s and another top UCAT score + band 1 SJT he might want to consider Edinburgh and Aberdeen as they use shortlisting score post interview. I am fairly sure that St Andrews and Leicester give preference to gap year applicants.

wow @Monkey2001 what did he do differently second time round ?

So many questions... I'd better go and find/read your back story.

DS admits he is finding it a little challenging emotionally to see fellow pupils without his academic record and predicted lower A Level grades, holding medicine offers as he can't believe that teachers will be confident enough to award grades that mean one of their own pupils miss out on their place at University. In his mind, an offer = a place this year. There must be a bit of truth to that as apparently Universities are making less offers this year to avoid ending up with more successful applicants than places available.

@opoponax he will ask for feedback in order to try and improve next year in whatever area he was deemed to be not strong enough this year.

@hardrightwal no wonder your DS is finding it challenging emotionally at the moment. Has he considered Extra/Clearing this year? His stats and the fact that he sat both UCAT and BMAT this year should put him in a good position for that. I think there is info on Extra/Clearing on TSR as well as a lot of evidence of contributors getting a number of good offers this year after none last year.

Monkey's DS's story on here is a really inspiring one and definitely worth a read.

Hello @hardrightwal, as I think it is relevant to the other people in your DS's situation, here is a summary:

2018/19 cycle - Applied to Cambridge, Sheffield, Newcastle and Leeds. UCAT 2800 B2 (could have re-done it as he had computer problems, but was happy with the score), good but not amazing BMAT. He had been volunteering at Riding for Disabled for almost a year, had work experience through the local NHS scheme, which had given him access to attend operations and shadow consultants in a range of clinics. GCSEs all A/A from very average comprehensive which is on some of the "aspiring schools" lists, various prizes, Olympiad golds, 2 x grade 8s, predicted 3xA. He got 4 interviews, Cambridge was OK, but not quite good enough, Sheffield he failed on "knowledge of course and city", which still baffles us, Leeds he just missed because he was in top 60% but they only gave offers to top 55%, Newcastle was a disaster - mental block when asked to think of a time when he had shown resilience and downhill from there!

Was in shock as the rejections started to come through. Like many medicine applicants, he was one of the people in all the school press releases for exams who was successful at everything he tried and had no experience of failure. He saw his friends getting offers and was lost for a while.

He did not really consider doing Biomed, we had done enough research to know that a gap year was a more sensible plan. He got an admin job in a GP surgery, was planning to get his driving licence and do a diploma in singing.

2019/20 cycle - he applied to Cambridge, Sheffield, St Andrews and Leicester. UCAT was better (2910, B1), BMAT was very good, maybe top 1%. He got 4 interviews and felt that they all went badly and decided to use his 5th choice for Biomed at Sheffield, thought medicine was off the cards. Cambridge he was pooled but rejected, but got offers for all the others, the St Andrews and Leicester offers were in the first batches they issued, so the interviews must have gone well, he just did not know how to assess his own performance. He was particularly bemused by Sheffield as he was sure that his 2018/19 interview was better.

I think he was just a more mature person, having a job meant that he had been interacting with adults in a work-like manner. He did prepare a bit more for the interviews, he had not realised that he really might not get an offer, so was complacent first time round.

It all worked out very well for him, the gap year was good, in spite of Covid. He met a lovely girlfriend at the beginning of the year who was also taking a gap year and although he did not get to take a driving test or do the diploma (thanks Covid!) he learnt to cook and use a washing machine. He accepted the St Andrews offer and said that given how hard he has to work to stay in the top 15%, he is glad he did not get into Cambridge as it would have been even more intense. He loves the course there in spite of the very strict rules they have brought in to control Covid. I think a lot of first year medical students have been on line all year, but they have had 2-3 F2F clinical skills/dissection workshops every week.

I would advise gap year applicants to have a good look at St Andrews and Leicester as they both seem to like gap year applicants.

My DS didn't do as well as opoponax's - but he has got two offers this year (with one pre-interview rejection and one post-interview rejection, the pre-interview rejection was because the UCAT shot up so much - all over the place, but in his case at Bristol, and while he had a good UCAT - above 80th percentile, he didn't have the 90th percentile needed for an interview at Bristol). He took the UCAT at home, and said that if he was going to have to do it again, he would do it in a test centre (he was scoring higher in medify and other practices than he did in the real thing, and while it is hard to be sure it was due to him doing it at home, and there weren't any obvious technical issues except that the calculator didn't work the way it did in the practices and apparently would have in the test centre, he felt he didn't really do himself justice).

In terms of tips, I think I would just stress what has effectively been said upthread, which is that while the focus has to be initially on that UCAT/BMAT as the better score you have, the more options you have, once you have your score, you cannot afford to relax, because once you have secured those interviews, it is effectively a reset, and what you got does not count, in most places, which is all on interview score.

One of the things that DS found immensely helpful in preparing for interview is a Discord channel made up of medical applicants (a few medical students I think as well) who interview each other over Discord. He said it was much better practice than TSR, as there you were writing, and here you were actually talking - and it meant that not only did he get practice (and practice and practice), but he got to be on the other side of the table and have to look at it from the perspective of an interviewer, which surely will have helped give a level of insight that is otherwise not available.
DS said that in one of his practices, he said something he thought was innocuous, and the person doing the interviewing said - "don't ever say that, it makes it sound like you have no empathy" - DS is in fact a very empathic person, but in the heat of the moment it is so easy to come across as someone who isn't, and having people working with you and picking that up and critiquing you (and then you working with them to do the same) seemed invaluable. DS used the book as well to help, and worked through all of the examples there, and it was great, but the book won't tell him he comes across as arrogant or non empathatic, or wishy-washy, or whatever might get you marked down at interview. Having an significant supply of different human beings also trying to crack the system is much better for doing that and understanding exactly what your weaknesses are at interview, he certainly felt.

Below is the link he sent me:

"Discord invite to Medical Applicants server: discord.gg/BHr8vPFjhy
To those who are new to discord and may not know how things work you need to visit the #roles channel and select the right emoji to be able to see and message the rest of the server"

We are a completely non medical family, so all of this was totally new to us - but from what I am understanding interviews feature quite heavily higher up as well (ie for specialist jobs and the like) so that honing ones interview skills are a worthwhile investment generally - and let's face it, all of our DC have had loads of practice sitting exams, and are experts at doing past papers and practicing, but who has ever done an interview before?

btw my DS applied for a deferred place, so he will (assuming he gets the grades) be joining many of your DC in 2022.

Thank you so much to everyone for all of the information provided.

We have no medical (or even nursing or PAM) connections in the family and a friend we might have pleaded with for shadowing has had their hands tied by Covid meaning no supernumerary observers permitted.

Time to concentrate of maxing his grades on assessments/mini exams I think. For him it's a shame that schools have reset the clock on that front as he'd been achieving at A level throughout 6th form to date whereas others were less consistent. Now with a reduced syllabus to be examined and information provided as to the subject of the assessments, I think a lot of his cohort will be capable of being assessed as A, which sadly devalues the currency.

Reading that back seems mean to others but he is concerned that with no offer targets to be borne in mind by teachers, if As are notionally capped/limited in some way (so as to give an overall air of reasonableness to the school's results as a whole), his final grade might be seen as less crucial compared to others whose Oxbridge, medical, dentistry or veterinary place offer requires one or more As . It really would be a pain in the backside to have to resit A Levels in the autumn to chase A*s and I've read on MN of one or 2 dc who had to do this last year due to the grades fiasco.

Something I observed in 2019 was that the DC who had part time jobs in bars and shops were more successful at interviews, supporting my theory that professional adult interactions make interviews so much easier. May have been different this year with on line interviews

@Monkey2001

Something I observed in 2019 was that the DC who had part time jobs in bars and shops were more successful at interviews, supporting my theory that professional adult interactions make interviews so much easier. May have been different this year with on line interviews

DS does have a p/t job (on hold at present due to covid) but I wonder if it may have to be ditched in favour of other work/volunteering in a healthcare field after exams/assessments are over. Not for box-ticking purposes, more for gaining knowledge of everyday healthcare/medical/nursing stuff in the hope that it would provide a deeper knowledge base for interviews.

@hardrightwal not sure if it's helpful but my DD had a weeks experience at a GP, 3 days on a hospital shadowing scheme, volunteered (for many years) helping kids learn to look after animals and worked in a supermarket. So not much medical stuff, but had a job. She got 4 offers and was able to use the job for lots of examples of resilience, patience, team work, communication. And she said it helped being used to talking to total strangers in the role plays. So some experience of medicine is useful (more than anything so you know it's really want you want to do), but you don't need hours from her experience.

@hardrightwal I think it all helps to be honest. It’s great DS has a part tome job to go back to but if other opportunities came up he could consider them. A healthcare assistant would probably give amazing experience and loads to draw upon in an interview. It would also show real determination and dedication to a medical career. Likewise volunteering in a care home perhaps.

But I think as others have said, often other than proving you have really researched the role of a Dr and have some medical work experience, for a lot of interview questions it doesn’t really matter where the example of resilience or teamwork etc comes from - it could be from being a waiter or working on a check out, just as much as it could be from volunteering.

I do think whatever experience they get, if it’s helping their confidence and helps them with things like role plays as @mumsneedwine says, then it’s all worthwhile.

How do I know it's a white knuckle ride ? Well, and I don't want to frighten anyone, it will be second time round for DS who is a classic example of how surprising the selection system can be. He has all top grades at GCSE, is predicted 4 x A at A Level, school provided a very supportive reference and advised that his PS was eminently suited to his application. He's held positions of responsibility within school pupil hierarchy etc, has volunteered for years, done regular first aid courses, online virtual work experience (Corona Virus put paid to the actual real life experience) extensive reading relative to his application. Practice interviews at school went well including the MMI stuff. His UCAT was top 3%, his BMAT top 5-10%

He studied the course types, requirements, and various admission statistics to be able apply strategically to maximise his chances (and for a course he thought would suit him) or so he thought, got 3 interviews but was rejected post interview from all 3 choices.

School were confident he'd get offers and have no helpful suggestions as to what they think might have been the problem for him. They are warning all of the "aspiring medics" that competition for medicine places will be even greater next year and asking pupils to consider carefully before rejecting a fifth choice non-medicine offer.*

Sorry for your DS's disappointment. He sounds as though he's fine academically/on paper, and that it was really just the interview that he needs to work on.

I would also try to get a relevant job for his enforced gap year to make up for his lack of practical experience.

Good luck to him next year!

Cardiff virtual open day is on Wednesday, the other ones we are interested in seem to be in June.

Anybody else looking at Cardiff? Easy decision for us as DS has wrong A levels, so only 3 options.

Do Cardiff give preference to Welsh candidates @Monkey2001 ?