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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

Oxbridge Aspirants 2021-New Thread 4

984 replies

Baaaahhhhh · 24/11/2020 10:11

And we are off:

Thread 3 link: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/higher_education/4070531-Oxbridge-Aspirants-2021-New-Thread-3

OP posts:
SATSmadness · 04/12/2020 10:52

@Majaso12

Dd got an offer last night from Imperial which we’re pleased about, but a bit annoyed that her offer is one grade higher than their entry requirements, especially as other unis are giving out lower offers this year. I had a feeling they might do that if predicted grades are higher, so phoned them before she submitted her application and they said they didn’t do that, would be the grades on their website. It’s actually higher than Oxford because they are specifying what the A* has to be in.
I think Plymouth have also done this to someone's dc applying for medicine, despite them checking before and after UCAS submission exactly what the required grades were stated to be.

With regards the Imperial offer being "higher than Oxford". I can't help wondering whether the habitually massively oversubscribed Uni's will add an extra A* instead of an A this year to offers made so it would be premature to say that Imperial is higher than Oxford at this stage.

Looks like there's no standard way of addressing the Covid impact being adopted by Uni's.

What a horrible year to be a Y13. I fear just as many will suffer from perhaps not getting where they might have been accepted in a normal year as did with last year's Y13 cohort.

IrmaFayLear · 04/12/2020 11:03

There was a letter in The Times or Telegraph (can't remember which) the other day from a headteacher in the W Midlands saying that his school had completely played by the rules regarding CAGS - any teacher who estimated higher than expected had to submit proof (previous written work) of a pupil's improvement. The school was then completely stuffed as surrounding schools all had unexpectedly phenomenal results which were honoured. The system totally rewarded the unscrupulous.

I can only assume that the Oxbridge colleges this year will be forced into making far fewer offers to avoid last year's debacle. Unfortunately other competitive universities will have to curtail, too, which is unfair on those yet to receive an offer or who haven't even sent their form in yet.

Majaso12 · 04/12/2020 11:18

The offer from Imperial (AAA) is the same as Oxford’s entry requirements, it’s just that Imperial have specified the A has to be in chemistry or biology but with Oxford it can be in any related subject, so could be in maths.

ChimneyPot · 04/12/2020 11:40

The changes to A levels are baffling.

In Ireland they set out the changes in this years exam papers back in September. Basically they have added more choice to each exam so that students can just do 80% of the course but schools can decide themselves which topics to leave out based on what they had already covered.

SATSmadness · 04/12/2020 11:45

@Majaso12 Are you saying that your DD already has an Oxford offer ?

Otherwise it's not a true comparison. An offer from Oxford post interview could also be higher than their entry requirements, just like Imperial.

Congrats to your DD on the Imperial offer though.

Majaso12 · 04/12/2020 11:49

No she doesn’t. Oh that’s worrying, didn’t think they did that, not that she thinks she’ll get an offer. She has her interviews next week. I’d heard Cambridge did but not Oxford.

pepperaunt · 04/12/2020 12:02

Congratulations to your DD Majaso! What did she apply for? Mine hasn’t heard from Imperial yet (Physics)

SATSmadness · 04/12/2020 12:24

I didn't mean to worry you @Majaso12.

So far the MN poster provided evidence of Unis upping grade requirements is limited to Plymouth and Imperial.

On the radio in the last week I heard of Birmingham and Surrey dropping their requirements, so it's 50/50 at the moment.

I must admit I haven't looked closely at published grade requirements. Are they stipulated as being a minimum level of attainment expected in order to be able to apply for the course in the first place or a guarantee of what the offer will be made at if accepted.

BilberryBaggins · 04/12/2020 12:34

Fwiw I totally agree with universities dropping their offers, I'd love them to all do unconditional this year - if grades are not a reliable measure, then why base your entry on grades?

WRT the A Level measures, again, I think they're pretty sensible; there is no way of calculating a 'grade impact' without resorting to a computer algorithm, and I think the head of Ofqual was bang on when she said that these measures give most benefit to the most disadvantaged. It means that in that run-up time, students can concentrate their revision on specific topics, and having extra aids such as vocabulary lists and formulae will reduce the amount of time having to be spent learning parrot style. If you already have those learned, then this is of no benefit to you, but if you are struggling to get through the material, then that is a real boost.

The unhappy truth though is that exams themselves are intrinsically unfair; they are a national ranking system where people arrive at the start gate hugely differently equipped, through no fault/merit of their own. And even if all students had the same preparation/resources, the fact remains that exams reward students who are good at exams, and due to government ideology, that equates to students who are good at memorising things. I've long thought that exams should be open-book, to enable more meaningful questions that actually test depth of understanding, not how many facts can you write down in a set time.

Majaso12 · 04/12/2020 12:37

Imperial does say minimum requirements whereas others unis just say requirements. In previous years 80% of offers are A*AA and AAA. I thought hers might have be the minimum required, she was given a lower offer from Warwick.

bendmeoverbackwards · 04/12/2020 12:40

Fwiw I totally agree with universities dropping their offers, I'd love them to all do unconditional this year - if grades are not a reliable measure, then why base your entry on grades?

I agree especially with Oxbridge who interview all candidates. Surely they get a better feel for an applicant and how they will cope with the demands of the course from an interview rather than how they perform in an exam on one day? Especially after such a stressful and uncertain year.

BilberryBaggins · 04/12/2020 12:58

I also think people are not necessarily aware of the impact in Wales of what they've done - the headline is 'exams cancelled', but the reality is lots of tests done in class, under exam conditions, to then be sent off to the exam board to mark.

All the English teachers I work with are desperately hoping nothing like that happens here, the overhead is massive, and it reduces teaching time considerably, and for students wanting to progress onto higher education, it is in their benefit to have actually covered the A Level syllabus!!

SATSmadness · 04/12/2020 13:03

That's what DD was saying last night Bilberry

She doesn't want to end up not having covered the syllabus in full just in case she needs that level of knowledge later on.

It's a right pickle !

Majaso12 · 04/12/2020 13:37

Pepperaunt Her offer is for biochemistry. I think they’ve only just started giving offers out.

FlyingSquid · 04/12/2020 13:50

I've long thought that exams should be open-book, to enable more meaningful questions that actually test depth of understanding, not how many facts can you write down in a set time.

Older DC did online finals this year. They were (for the first time) open book, but the uni said that results were strongly in line with previous cohorts and with students' prior attainment despite this change.

(That's before they added in the 'no detriment' policy, as far as DC was aware.)

ClarasZoo · 04/12/2020 14:14

Does anyone know how the Cambridge pool works? Do colleges get to look in the pool before making offers to the direct applicants? Presumably not. How do they know if there is someone better in the pool? Do candidates know that they are in the pool before main offer day? Or are told on main offer day that they are going in the pool?

FlyingSquid · 04/12/2020 14:24

www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/files/publications/guide_to_the_winter_pool_for_applicants.pdf

Does this help? It's a couple of years old but probably still applies.

ClarasZoo · 04/12/2020 17:06

Yes thank you that is helpful. I think my main question is - do you know that you are in the pool before offer day? Or is it just a matter of interest after the event of being rejected or accepted?

SATSmadness · 04/12/2020 17:34

@ClarasZoo

I think if the candidates being interviewed now aren't expecting to hear whether they are being made an offer until late January and the document linked to states .... "The pool takes place over three days in early January",
then I would think you don't know until you either receive an offer from a different college or are asked to attend another interview with a different college.

f you were pooled and then ‘taken back’ by your original College and made an offer" however, I guess you'd never know. Although this seems odd.

ClarasZoo · 04/12/2020 17:54

[quote SATSmadness]**@ClarasZoo

I think if the candidates being interviewed now aren't expecting to hear whether they are being made an offer until late January and the document linked to states .... "The pool takes place over three days in early January",
then I would think you don't know until you either receive an offer from a different college or are asked to attend another interview with a different college.

f you were pooled and then ‘taken back’ by your original College and made an offer" however, I guess you'd never know. Although this seems odd.[/quote]
I agree but I wonder why they bother to tell candidates that they were pooled. It's like saying - you were nearly there - but still not!

Hoghgyni · 04/12/2020 18:31

www.newstatesman.com/politics/education/2019/01/here-s-how-cambridge-admissions-process-looks-inside

Some of you may find this interesting.

ChimneyPot · 04/12/2020 19:13

DD got an offer from Exeter this evening.
It is higher than her Durham offer though and at the moment she would prefer Durham.

Hoghgyni · 04/12/2020 21:51

She's doing well, Chimney. I feel invested now! Has she read right through the Exeter email just in case they have offered her cash to sweeten the grades? I'm not sure if they do for non GB students.

Pumpkintopf · 04/12/2020 22:22

WRT to the grade inflation and schools being 'greedy' - I think the best explanation I heard was from former Education Secretary Ed Balls who plainly put it that when predicting grades teachers will put down what they think the student can realistically achieve, on the day, if everything goes right- the candidate is well, the 'right' questions that they are strong on/have revised come up, etc etc.

IRL this never happens- some candidates will not do the work, or will revise the 'wrong' stuff for the paper, or will simply have a bad day.

But, crucially, teachers cannot predict which student that might happen to - neither should they.

Regardless, the algorithm debacle this summer was clearly awful and that particular land mine should have been spotted a mile off!

That's really interesting about Wales - I had no idea that was the case and agree the reporting has simply been 'exams cancelled'.

NiamCinnOir · 04/12/2020 23:08

Well done to your dd on her Exeter offer, @ChimneyPot. Is Durham her preferred option at the moment?