Oxford and Cambridge current students discussion thread

[sandybayley]

Starting a new one as we filled it up!

Can't believe DS1 will be home in 2 weeks. Must remember to adjust the Ocado shop for when he's back. I suspect we may end up with a few days of his favourite meals 😊

@Unescorted, your last sentence resonates with me. Those in genuine need as a result of the pandemic (ie over and above those who are known to the colleges and are at uni year round anyway) might well be the most stoic, more able to see what is good for the “collective” and less likely to make a fuss. I really object to the unfairness of any situation where those who shout loudest get what they want. But as you say, they have to live by their decisions too.

B/c DD is the youngest on her course - in effect taking a year out by not doing a foundation year her college her academic tutors have been really quick to check in with her. Making sure she had everything she needs and giving her the option of returning to Oxf if she needed to. They have truly fallen for the broken baby bird act she can put on. I can't fault how she has been treated.

ofteninaspin DD wrote to her tutor on Jan 1st, ahead of lockdown, asking to go back the day before her language classes begin (they're daily). It would genuinely be a struggle from home, at the moment, and the college readily agreed when the read her reasoning. She knows a number of people who were given the go-ahead and some who were declined. Obviously some chancers will have fallen through the net but I don't think it's as evenly split into the shouters and the not shouters as you suggest.

Changing the subject, for those of you who've had a 2nd DC apply - is it more or less stressful?

I would say yes, and increasingly with each successive DC where the one ahead it in the food chain has been successful. But that's to do with sibling parity, nothing to do with Oxbridge per se.

I’m a bit hesitant to post this because there is quite a bit of disapproval about those who choose to return, but I thought I’d do it anyway. DS is returning this weekend. My view at the time of the lockdown announcement was that he could make the request, explain the circumstances (specifically related to him living with his 94-year old grandmother) and then let college decide. He gave a brief but entirely accurate picture of life at home; It was a short email, definitely no shouting. College took a few days to decide yes. He has been told that about 3-4 Michaelmas bubbles are joining up to form a new one, which gives an indication of the proportion of people returning. Until reading this thread it didn’t cross my mind that his application to return might be impacting the outcome for others. I’m still not sure that’s the case and presume the delay in replying by the college was so they could look at the applications en masse rather than first come, first served. On the basis that they had an accurate picture I don’t think he is “chancing it”, but neither do I suppose that his is the absolute most deserving case and I do feel sorry for those who are in need and have been turned down.

@sandybayley Interesting question about Oxbridge second time around. My experience is that it gets less stressful. Background - DH and I both went to Oxford in the nineties and loved it. Many of our friends today are our old uni friends. I think this is important as it means our DC are familiar with Oxford to the point of slight boredom, and know Oxbridge graduates who have been (materially) hugely successful and others who have (in worldly terms) achieved pretty well nothing.

DC1 was rejected by Oxford after interview and was fine with it. DC2 is a current Oxford fresher and was more enthusiastic than DC1 about the whole Oxford thing. DC3 will probably apply next year and isn’t too bothered either way.

My experience is that familiarity with the whole thing reduces stress, because it shows that the stakes are lower than some candidates think. Familiarity means that DC have realistic views about how unimportant Oxbridge is in the long run. Bright people get in and sometimes brighter people don’t. Some top graduates make a splash and some never want to try.

Having said that, good luck to your DD. I think that making an attempt is worthwhile and a very valuable experience.

SnapSnap for those with a legitimate need there's absolutely no ground for being guilt tripped. In DD's case, beyond falling square within the government exemptions, she won't have come into contact with anyone other than me other than online for 18 days prior to her return, and I haven't been in contact in real life for that amount of time either. Ours is also a low infection area. Not everyone going back is incapable of thinking about the greater good.

That said, it does seem that colleges aren't being even across the board in this, which is certainly unfair.

Ah no make that 16 days because she was out at the beach to see NY in. I counted wrong on my fingers. Same difference though.

@SnapSnapDragon - please don't feel guilty. Where students have genuine need to be back it's great that they are. It's just a shame that not everyone who needs to be is.

On the Oxbridge 'round 2' stress. I think it should be better because I know what to expect, as does DD. And it's Medicine so completely different to Chemistry. My worry is that DD is very competitive and academically has performed DS1 but he has a certain something (intellectual curiosity?) which does make him stand out. On the positive side DS2 has no interest whatsoever so there will be no round3.

If daily language classes, for example, are a reasonable reason to return, then I very much hope that every student who has them has also been invited to return, regardless of whether they enquired. Otherwise, it is unfair.

DD was given permission to be go back on time after clearly stating her case before Christmas. It seemed her College was going to honour all commitments made before lockdown was announced, but then they did an about turn last week and halted all returns. DD messaged her College and was immediately given permission to come back as planned. I wish there was some kind of compromise, as I really am torn between her being where she needs to be & being with us. I think her college has genuinely looked at each case individually and tried to do what is best under difficult circumstances. I wouldn't want to be the one having to make some fine judgements.

ofteninaspin I don't intend to spell out all domestic and personal circumstances on MN but no, language classes on their own wouldn't be sufficient to justify a return, obviously. If you couldn't access those classes it would justify a return. If you then had additional reasons for needing to return then it's not even a fine judgment for the college to make.

Sorry to hear things are bad @OhYouBadBadKitten. I really hope there are some chinks of light out there.

@SnapSnapDragon I feel bad about it too but we have been honest about our situation.

@sandybayley I found the stress different the 2nd time round. With DD1 it was all new. DH & I were the first generation to go to uni and were given poor advice/no advice by our respective schools. When DD1 said she wanted to try for C, we said we'd never forgive ourselves if we didn't support her. With DD2, we had been through the process so understood it better. She too got an interview but was then rejected, so we have had experience of both outcomes. She was gutted at the time, but with the benefit of hindsight, she is loving her uni and doing really well there. DD2 called herself "the family failure" until I told her in no uncertain terms that she was far from that. She has different strengths to DD1. DD2 actually did better in Chemistry A level than DD1, which put the failure label to bed.

my dd was also granted permission to return. She was entirely truthful to the college and they decide she qualified to return. I would not let anyone on her guilt trip me about it and frankly it no one but the college’s and her business why she needs to return.

She is certainly not breaking any laws or guidance as she is returning according to fitting requirements that the college and the government provided.

cinnammonbuns exactly. I don't feel bad, I feel completely neutral. If a student needs to go back to access their course then there's no decision to live with (!), by definition, because it's a no-brainer. I like DD's company but that's not a good reason for her to stay at home.

Honestly I have found the “judginess” of some people as a direct result of Covid quite unattractive and at times verging on the ridiculous. I fear there will be reverberations of this for some time to come yet. Just had a quick look at some of the topics of discussion under the “coronavirus” threads - certainly won’t be doing that again in a hurry!

DS hasn’t broken any rules/laws/guidance/regulations or whatever you’d like to call it. I’m a believer that people are in general good and kind and will do the best for those around them and for themselves.

I'm also having difficulty with the idea that the Oxbridge colleges are turning down requests from any of those who have sound reasons to return, although some may be giving a little more latitude to those in the grey area than others. And therefore I don't really see a problem.

Other than for those in the grey area. But that's the nature of grey.

Oxford colleges have had to make hard calls, because the pressure on our support staff and the local community is already at problematic levels. For example, there have been complaints to the police, including submissions of CCTV footage, of groups of undergraduates congregating on the street over the past few days, blocking pavements for residents.

Where students are returning because they genuinely could not access their course at home, we expected they would continue to follow the spirit and letter of stay at home (in their room within their college) once they got here. Certainly our plan at my college was that once we saw things were safe, and our staff could manage, we would endeavour to let more return. Unfortunately after just a few days that has not been our experience.

We have needed the wisdom of Solomon, and I'm sure we've made some misjudgements - allowing some of the sharp elbowed back who could have accessed their course at some level from home, but got requests in early (optimal access of the course is of course as a resident for all of them, but impossible) and sadly missed others who need it more. Unfortunately we had to close our appeal process once we'd heard from our junior deans and then the police about problems even already in 0th week. And at this point, to be frank, we're anticipating needing to send some home if the bad behaviour continues.

Hope this helps to explain the situation a little more. Anyone worried about a student who is unsafe or cannot access their course at all from vac homes should tell them to contact their welfare advisor. Perhaps those who have returned will settle down when work begins and we can fit in a few more, but the more those here ignore stay at home, putting our support staff and neighbours at risk, the harder that is.

Which college is having these problems oxonian73? That intelligence won't out you, given that you're new to MN.

My elder DC returned to Oxford before NY (DPhil science student - legit) and hasn't seen any problems.

But perhaps he's just unobservant or in the wrong part of town. But great gaggles of students blocking pavements? Even he might have clocked that....

@oxonian73 - thanks for that update. The issues you've faced in applications to return sound very much like DS1 has described. I'll encourage him to encourage his friend who is really struggling at home (mental health issues and difficult home life) to apply again to their college.

It's not the plethora of applications for exemption which is news sandybayley, it's the Capitol style riots of the streets of Oxford.