University offers after results

[Bowbridge]

www.theguardian.com/education/2020/nov/13/vice-chancellors-back-university-offers-going-out-after-a-level-results?scrlybrkr=d231436b

This is long overdue in my opinion. Most universities don't read the personal statement and base their offers purely on grades. This will save schools, teachers and students so much time in the Autumn term. In many other countries they base offers on grades achieved and a 400 word motivational statement. The UK should follow suit. Thoughts?

Hmm I feel a consultation response coming on!

You are spot on titchy. Why do we have knee jerk reactions to a problem which won’t be great for the majority? The answer is raising aspirations in school. Also maybe accepting that not all dc are failed by their university choice. Many are happy with their lives! It’s just the chattering classes that are not.

I’m also wondering if this will end up with a two tier system. The elite universities want a PS and more info and the status quo. The others don’t want a PS and move to a post results system. Why not expect the ps to be read? DC have put effort into writing it? Why dumb everything down for the bums on seats model?

That would negate the effects of trying to help lower income students, surely?

I must say, although allegedly universities are in support of the idea, I haven't seen anything from Oxbridge.

I don’t see how less time to decide helps anyone. How will lower income families look at the universities? What about dc who wish to work over the summer? It sounds like a policy that should help aspiring dc but puts other barriers in the way. Perhaps only virtual visits in future? On line interviews? More tests administered by elite universities? Is the current system really so bad?

I think they should get rid of exams, get rid of a levels. My daughter is in Y11 and would love to take five subjects and is upset the system requires her to specialise so early. A broader subject base and graded coursework and a few standardised exams would allow the kids to explore subjects they love without having to commit to one or another narrow field.
But as to original point, offers should be made much earlier, so exams would need to be.

I think it’s a good idea. The current system is based on predicted grades and predicted grades are more often wrong than right. Not such a problem for the top tier Unis but way too much unfairness in mid and lower tier Unis.

Perhaps students could take their main exams in March or there about s but still be required to attend and ‘pass’ the remainder of the academic year. Applications would take less time as students would know where they could apply. It would also mean students wouldn’t have to visit a range of universities. I think personal statements should be scrapped too.

University places should be awarded on academic merit. Not on whether you and your school know how to play the game.

UUK is the collective of all universities across the UK including Oxbridge.
This is the actual document that was published (if anybody wants to read it). The proposal for post qualification admissions is only one of 8 recommendations from the UK HE sector to play their part in making the admissions systems more transparent and fairer. There has already been some consultation and there will be more. Annexe 3 provides a summary of the proposed model.
www.universitiesuk.ac.uk/policy-and-analysis/reports/Documents/2020/uuk-fair-admissions-review.pdf

I think it’s a good idea. The current system is based on predicted grades and predicted grades are more often wrong than right

It's not though. Places are awarded based on ACTUAL GRADES OBTAINED. It largely doesn't matter what your predicted grades are - for the majority of courses you'll get an offer regardless of predicted grade.

@Pipandmum

I think they should get rid of exams, get rid of a levels. My daughter is in Y11 and would love to take five subjects and is upset the system requires her to specialise so early. A broader subject base and graded coursework and a few standardised exams would allow the kids to explore subjects they love without having to commit to one or another narrow field. But as to original point, offers should be made much earlier, so exams would need to be.

Move to Scotland 🙃

Kids can choose 5 Highers in S5, and a further 4 in S6. So final two years at school, they could choose 9 diffferent subjects at higher level. Obviously, most kids are choosing things that interest them or planning for career or uni. Definitely a “broad attitude to learning” which seems to work. It must be sooooo boring only choosing 3 subjects over 2 years at such a young age. Not much room for manoeuvre if you choose wrong!

Or @Pipandmum dd could do the IB instead and stay in England

A broader subject base isn’t necessarily great for some degrees. Also there is the IB. Everyone has to make the same choices if state educated and DC can keep interests going outside school. Just no exams.

Doing A levels on March would surely be counter productive in the worst performing schools. Countless supply teachers, poor teaching and lack of focus by a school would ensure the disadvantaged are further disadvantaged by taking exams early! That seems very unfair too.

So the majority of students are happy with the system but BAME students are not. So surely this is where intensive work needs to be done. Why do they feel their experience is not good? Roughly the same percentage have a bad experience with careers advice at school? Is this part of the same problem? All the points about unconditional offers has been well rehearsed but makes little difference to the majority. Yes, they should stop. Yes, students should be able to see what grades are normally required but what about clearing grades and actual grades upon entry? However knowing this in advance might demotivate and that ends up with the same issue as unconditional offers. Why bother to aim high if you don’t need to? No one straightforward answer but for the majority, it’s not a broken system!

www.universitiesuk.ac.uk/policy-and-analysis/reports/Documents/2020/uuk-fair-admissions-review.pdf

So looking at the proposed system p 25:

• Students submit their UCAS between September and June
• Students select 3 courses only
• They can receive rejections but not offers between Sept-June
• Students can replace a rejection with another course or swap a course between Sept-June
• Interviews, admissions tests, auditions are done between Sept-June
• Early August Universities receive exam results
• 1 week later is University Offer Day
• Students then have a week to accept or decline offers
• Adjustment and Clearing starts (late August)

What's not to love!
For my DC, 3 choices was plenty. They never had any intention of going to choices 4 or 5. Given that you can swap courses right up until June, this seems like a much better system and no personal statement to worry about or school references for teachers to write. Teachers can teach... and have a weekend!

What's not to love!
For my DC, 3 choices was plenty. They never had any intention of going to choices 4 or 5. Given that you can swap courses right up until June, this seems like a much better system and no personal statement to worry about or school references for teachers to write. Teachers can teach... and have a weekend!

So you like it because teachers don't have to write references. Ok then.... not sure that's really the point....!

Don't underestimate the impact that having an offer has on kids, particularly those who are disavtantaged. It gives them something to aim for - so many kids need something to focus on, a reason to pull their finger out. An offer is a huge confidence boost, those that feel daunted have months to slowly get used to the idea. With only the possibility of an offer many of those least confident kids will drift, look for alternatives.

If you don't like predicted grades, references or the PS - remove them! Solves all the problems, none of the issues.

Well mine did want 5 choices! What percentage of dc don’t put 5 down? Is that another problem? More disadvantaged dc cannot visit universities so just put down one? Does that skew data? Anecdotes don’t help really. Facts might.

One thing, I think I would want a positive you have not been rejected, rather than rely on an absence of a rejection meaning that I hadn't.

Neither DS1 nor DD considered applying to any university that - at the time of submitting the application - they had no intention of attending, even if DD did decide that she no longer particularly wanted Warwick or Exeter when it came to deciding whether or not to attend applicant days. What had the admissions staff done to them, that they should actually set out potentially to make totally unnecessary work for them?

One thing, I think I would want a positive you have not been rejected, rather than rely on an absence of a rejection meaning that I hadn't.

Excellent point.

Rejections are only for those courses like medicine or Oxbridge requiring extra tests and interviews to select. No real change there.

beyond the is the review really clear on the problem(s) and root causes that it is trying to solve in terms of the simple process flow on page 25 of the document,

• is the implication that interviews and assessments will be far more prevalent than now? and lets face it the vast majority of courses don't currently require either;

• will actual marks, as opposed to just A level / IB etc grades need to be provided in the Universities receive exam results part of the process, the document implies not? How then would a Uni with capacity for say 200 on a course manage 400 applicants who met the required grades?

• or in this brave new world would entry requirements flex after applications and results received? So for our 400 AAA was the anticipated threshold for success and all met or exceeded it. To whittle them down does it overnight need to become A*AA, or higher?

The current system undoubtedly has it faults, but a solution that creates a new set of problems is perhaps not the best way forward.

And lest we forget any DC already has the option to not follow the herd and apply post A level anyway.

boys3. That’s a real concern and was mentioned earlier. How will popular courses be rationed? More tests? Alteration of grades required?

The report also wants historic grades for students ending courses. This may well end up being inaccurate fairly quickly. So guiding students to the elite universities could be a greater minefield - guess who will miss out. The current system isn’t overly broke!