Study in the time of COVID-19 (2019/20 intake): lockdown restrictions, relaxation of rules and repeat... And will the Grinch government cancel Christmas?

[NewModelArmyMayhem18]

Carrying on from our previous thread.

I believe these threads have probably been running since the summer/autumn of when our DC were about to start/in Year 13 (so 2018)?

I think Boris said something about reducing tuition fees when someone questioned him and that there would be more to come on that.

If they do reduce tuition fees I'm assuming their tuition loan would just be reduced as the fees go straight to the university (obviously I know students from abroad have to pay themselves)

which many students won’t pay back anyway

Many students don't pay back the FULL amount outstanding. That's VERY different to paying back nothing or paying back only the amount borrowed. When interest is factored in (at a ridiculously high rate), many students pay back all they borrowed in the first place, but don't quite manage to pay back all the interest too, so they still fall into the "don't pay it ALL back" category which people keep referring to. I did some spreadsheets showing the effect of interest, and the amounts repaid by people at different income levels, and it was quite sobering to see how many people at pretty average income levels for graduates (i.e. say £40k-£50k or so), are making student loan payments for years after paying off the original amounts borrowed and still don't quite clear it completely.

Student loans work well for those who either don't go on to get jobs paying over national average, or who work part time in "highly paid" jobs, but because they're part time, they pay very little. But someone who doesn't take a career break, or doesn't work part time, in a pretty average job for a graduate, pays through the nose for their student loans and interest.

user1497207191 yes completely agree - I was just looking at the average situation as described by Martin Lewis - also unfair on those parents/students who haven’t got a loan and are paying themselves.
The fairest thing to do is let the universities keep the money, reduce the loan to students, to say that of an open university course. Still not fair though, especially those who can’t get private rental fees back they are not using. On the flip side, some may have got their maintenance loan and got rental fees back so are ‘quids in’ especially it they will never pay it back.
It’s never going to be fair.

Perhaps cutting the interest rate charged on their mahoosive debt!

@Benjispruce2

Perhaps cutting the interest rate charged on their mahoosive debt!

That would be a good start. There had already been a study done re the punitive interest rates which recommended a reduction, but that was just before covid, so had probably been forgotten due to covid and brexit. Time to dust it off and take action.

DS in brand new halls designed for 409 plus students. So empty heat not rising through the building because students not pressing buttons to reboot wall heaters which are on a refresh timer. The building now freezing, told him to complain at reception but reception abandoned due to covid, so said go to Argos and buy heaters then complain to universities. £150 Per week to £179 they should be warm enough to work without coats on.

"The fairest thing to do is let the universities keep the money, reduce the loan to students, to say that of an open university course."

Although, that would not benefit those who pay upfront rather than borrow the loan (I know likely to be relatively few.)

And yes to the poster who said one of the reasons they don't (or won't - we're still at the fairly early stages with this scheme) pay it all back is because the interest rate is calculated in the way it is - many students will make very substantial repayments over the 30 years but will fall into the category of not having paid it all back.

@justasking111 that sounds awful! My DS is in privately owned uni accommodation and has a nice convection heater in his room, which keeps it at a nice temperature.

He has been told to pay his rent by tomorrow, but is really annoyed that all of the other providers of accommodation are waiving rent, but not his. He was planning to go back in a couple of weeks but I'm not sure whether they have now been told not to return. When I picked him up before Christmas none of this was foreseen so we left his computer there. Now he would really like it so that he can at least play online games with a group of friends.

We were in this exact same situation back in March or early April so we went back and emptied his room. I don't want to have to do this again.

Update for students at Newcastle University:

experience.ncl.ac.uk/taught-programme-student-update?utm_source=social&utm_medium=fb&utm_campaign=experience&utm_content=taught-programme-student-update&fbclid=IwAR01fdj8eHUB9rtq8Jz7uricJSbrkA8Xsf9FEpRckBz0bPsE9372g23S49A

@icanbewhatiwant ... I heard that question on the briefing last night ... I think he just said he would be looking into it ... I'm not holding my breath !!!! There is a petition going around too and I think it has enough signatures to be considered for debate !

You can return if you don’t have digital access at home or somewhere suitable to study.

If parents pay fees instead then it should be done equitably particularly as many of us pay over £9250 fees per child per year out of income already taxed at 40% +. If the course is 100% online in my view it should be about £3k fees a year not £9k+ and parents who have paid rent should be allowed to set all of it off against their tax bills as we seem to have discovered the magic money tree and are happy for at least £26bn to have been lost through criminals taking covid 19 loans. www.ft.com/content/3f205365-f41f-482d-94d8-05518bd25d03

And many of us aren't in the 40% tax bracket.

@Xenia if the fees are reduced by two thirds should the staff be paid only one third of their wages?

Dd is so stressed. She’s started on another 3000 word essay and the lecturer has kindly given them a list of secondary sources but says to get the best marks they should find and discuss references beyond these too. Guess how many secondary sources she’s been given to read?
She has just counted them.....

91

@zandathepanda this is the sort of thing my DD has been struggling with, and on top of that with much reduced tuition and support. She is not my 2nd year, but as a consequence of the above she is now doing the year part time and will take a year longer to complete her degree.

simbobs she has my sympathies. The essays are relentless and she says it’s difficult to judge whether they are on the right path with thesis statements without being able to chat properly face to face.

@Zandathepanda and @simbobs my DD and DS are in the same boat
It seems to me that Humanities/English/other essay-based degrees are incredibly demanding, and even worse when you aren’t really in contact with tutors or course mates for low-key f2f chats.

The pressure on these students is huge - I really hope the unis are grasping that.

Some universities are starting to implement a no detriment policy.

It seems odd that some of us have students with mountains of work (I know at least 3 of them are at Newcastle), and some have students with very little to do.

DD was struggling with her current essay as was over her word count which meant she had to cut a fair bit that was really relevant. She was trying to reference it without going in to so much detail so that she was showing she’d done the reading. I hate word counts. Also several of the books she needs are in the library and not online so she’d emailed her tutor but no reply as term time not started. I pretty sure they’ll take account of that now everything is closed. Anyway, she got back without challenge, to snowy Durham.

Durham seems to have a lot more snow than everywhere else. We stopped at Durham services on the way up yesterday, and the car park was a nightmare. Some drivers had to be pushed off it. There was snow in the third lane of the A1 in many places, but on the bright side it was very quiet.

Luckily she went on the LNER and only had one other person in her carriage all the way! They operate a seat reservation policy at the moment which stops travellers being too close, so that was reassuring to know.I think she said the snow appeared around York but got thicker further on.

Yes, we always had more snow in the NE as a child than London did. On fees or rent I don't expect the state will do anything as the magic money tree seems to be shaken only to the chosen furloughed few so not much point in speculating what might be done. I have certainly not suggested lecturers have pay cuts although countless people in the private sector have had pay reduced by 20% and hours upped by 20% or lost their jobs or life long businesses because of the measures largely to protect the old and sick.

Glad to hear your DD is safely back @Benjispruce2 and others!

DS seems to have a much heavier load (and summatives) than his housemates/other friends at Durham. But I’m sure (well, I hope!) it evens out over time!

DD2 off back today. Vet school have sent them a letter to show police if stopped (husband has copy too for way home). I hate that she's going, will be there until Easter without chance to go see her, but she has practical animal things so needs to go back. And wants to be in her flat as easier to do exams on a desk rather than the dining room table. I'm very sad at moment for our kids and all they are missing. Need some positive news very soon.