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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

Is there any thought yet as to how students are going to get home for Christmas?

362 replies

TawnyPippit · 26/10/2020 13:53

I haven’t seen anything, but I’m assuming some thought must be being given to this, whether by the universities or the govt?. DS is in catered accommodation and I can’t believe that that that would keep on going all over the Christmas period. I’m not a Christmas obsessive - DS is just coming to the end of his first lockdown period, and also can’t come home for reading week as originally planned as we are Tier 2. But I have told him (rashly?) that it will all be ok for Christmas.

I guess the way it would currently work would be to do another period of isolation - which hopefully will be just 7 days by then - and then come and re-join our household. He is in Tier 1, so coming home is not a problem for him, its us that cannot mix households ATM.

I suspect its all too far away to strategise about at the moment as we will likely have several different iterations of lockdown restrictions before then, just idle musings.

OP posts:
EdithWeston · 27/10/2020 17:53

And frankly, if you want to bring your DC home, of course you should, but do it safely. And take responsibility for the risks that that incurs. And remember that while you might lay down your life for your DC, you have absolutely no right to expect anyone else to do that, and you should behave so that no-one is put at risk by yours or your DC's decisions. We all have to take responsibility for each other

Very true

Frazzled6 · 27/10/2020 18:01

And frankly, if you want to bring your DC home, of course you should, but do it safely. And take responsibility for the risks that that incurs. And remember that while you might lay down your life for your DC, you have absolutely no right to expect anyone else to do that, and you should behave so that no-one is put at risk by yours or your DC's decisions. We all have to take responsibility for each other

Perhaps universities should have thought about this.... Let's face it they encouraged students to come to uni this term not giving any thought to their community.

lyralalala · 27/10/2020 18:34

@BitGutted

My stepdaughter was meant to go this year but deferred owing to covid.

Most of her lessons would have been online then there's the whole communal living and the "lack of student experience" not to mention the huge waste of money

I don't want to sound awful but am I missing something here? All universities offered deferred places to my step daughter and at least 6/7 friends all going to different places but the biggest issue is why would anyone go or send young people then moan about it??? Everyone was very clear on the situation and Parents should have thought about this in Aug/Sept and my step daughter made the decision herself.

They weren't all clear at all.

I have 3 at uni, including 2 in their first year. The girls are at different unis in the same city.

Both promised a mix of face-to-face and online learning. Both promised events in person and online. And most importantly both promised organisation and good communication.

One uni has delivered exactly this. Even when they had to cancel a lot of events they have had a load of zoom events and the staff have been great.

The other has been dire. My DD hasn't had a single face-to-face anything. When she (and lots of others it emerged) was struggling to access the online lectures it took 12 days to get back to her. They've been beyond hopeless.

MissMarplesGlove · 27/10/2020 20:53

Perhaps universities should have thought about this

We have actually. We've been thinking about how to balance everybody's safety, give our undergrads a quality education, and not become ill ourselves. As I said, we started taking responsibility for this in mid-March. We don't stop thinking, talking, changing our practices, adjusting, pivoting, trying to save colleagues' jobs, offering extra support for students.

RatherBeReading · 27/10/2020 21:26

My university has spent the best part of 20 million pounds to keep your DC safe. That's money we don't have, that's taken from cuts in staffing, cuts to staff salaries, and increases in staff workloads. Tuition fees don't touch these kinds of costs. If you want world-class universities to survive, and keep on educating your DC, some of you need to have a bit of a think about your attitudes here.

Patronising rubbish. Undergraduates are at minimal risk from Covid-19. Look at David Spiegelhalter’s recent publications which lay this out clearly. The money spent on safety measures is to keep staff (and wider community) who are elderly or otherwise vulnerable safe. If the costs of these measures were more expensive than the profits to be made from rent and fees (and food and fines...) then universities wouldn’t have reopened.
Even those tiny numbers of students who have an existing medical condition that raises their risk would, I suspect, be safer travelling home to be with their family for the Christmas weeks than staying living in close proximity with other students who are likely to be going out and about (supermarkets, pubs). So don’t make this about all the things university staff have sacrificed for the sake of lowering the COVID risk for their students. It just doesn’t ring true.
Added to which, the mental health and wellbeing of students needs to be given much more priority. They are at demonstrably greater risk of harm from strict lockdowns in small rooms, according to the analysis I’ve read so far, than from COVID. Which isn’t to say that students who are infectious shouldn’t isolate; the risk to the old and vulnerable means they should, IMO, with all necessary support. But stranding them in halls for 3-5 weeks (depending on the university) in the holidays is unconscionable, as is an enforced two week “just in case” lockdown regardless of individual circumstance.
My daughter is on a term time only contract in her fresher year at her accommodation. She gets 5 weeks off for Christmas and has already committed to work 3 days a week during that time - she needs the money, and certainly couldn’t afford to pay holiday rent and for the universities expensive food deliveries instead. She also couldn’t cope with spending that time with the near-strangers she’s living with, and who she has already been locked down with once, rather than with the family she is desperately missing.

An offer for students who have vulnerable family members to remain in universities free of charge doesn’t seem like the worst idea in the world. Testing students as they return to their families and/or back to uni in January would be eminently sensible. I’m sure there are other measures that could lower the risk for the old/vulnerable while also respecting that students are not prisoners and have a human right to a family life, leisure time and access to their paid employment.

Perhaps if the lockdown experience hadn’t been made so miserable for my daughter and many other students they would be more open to considering whether they should lockdown for final fortnight of term. But my daughter’s “lockdown welfare support” were useless - the student kitchens were immediately closed, expensive meals were the only “option” and were delivered late and cold, and tasted unpleasant (she’s lost a lot of weight), the wifi went down for 2 days and they got behind with delivering mail so she didn’t get her care package. As she points out, it cost her a small fortune in those expensive shit meals, and she ended up underweight and depressed; how much worse would the “support services” be if it was every single student locked down at once...

I know there has been massive pressure on university staff and I don’t think the blame for lack of care lies with individuals, but with government policies and university financial decisions. But whoever’s fault the lack of decent care for isolating students has been, the fact is that most universities have shown that they don’t have enough staff and resources to look after them properly, so students locking down en masse doesn’t seem a realistic proposition.

ListeningQuietly · 27/10/2020 21:31

Have not RTFT
but in answer to the OP

By car, bus, train, coach, bicycle or foot I guess

Grin
user1497207191 · 28/10/2020 07:32

@RatherBeReading

Fully agree. The only "support" my son's flat received from the uni when they were locked down (due to 1 student catching covid after partying) was a pack of bog rolls left outside the door. The Uni wouldn't even deliver post/parcels!

mumsneedwine · 28/10/2020 07:39

Bristol have been amazing to DDs flat. Massive free food deliveries, parcels delivered every day (& I've sent a lot). Welfare call to positive flatmate and DD. They have tried. But being stuck for 14 days in a small flat with people she's known for 5 weeks is tough. She wants to step outside. She wants to play her sport. And she'd quite like to see her parents.
Christmas she will be at homes with us. Her mental health is suffering and I won't risk that for anything. 9 suicides this term - and that's just the ones that have made the news.

simbobs · 28/10/2020 07:41

Well said @Ratherbereading. It is worth noting also that not every family unit comprises elderly grandparents. Some students will be coming home to a nuclear family and will obey existing rules when they get there. The media is grossly exaggerating the scale of the problem imo. DC may just be glad of a break from the weird uni experience and to spend some time at home.

HollyRoadRaider · 28/10/2020 08:28

As I wrote on another thread, just because they are students doesn't automatically mean they will carry the virus home with them. The risks to anyone at home are still proportionately fairly small.
Pick a uni city with a high rate of Covid - eg Manchester with 483 cases / 100,000 - what that actually means is that out of every 100,000 Manchester residents, 95,517 won't carry the virus at any one time i.e. 99.5% of Mancunians are actually fine to travel and mix without risk of infecting anyone. Only 1 Mancunian in every 200 is a Covid carrier.
I accept that the rates are often higher in the student population than the local population but even with say 3000 cases per 100,000 students (which is a figure I have heard mentioned), that's still only 3% of the student population infected - and therefore 97% of them fine. Plus by Xmas, a lot of students will have already had Covid and will likely be immune (for a few months at least).
With other kids in secondary school in a high risk area, and frankly not really distancing at all, I think they're just as likely to bring Covid home as their big sister travelling home from uni for Xmas.
Keep the risks in proportion in your mind.

Sonnenscheins · 28/10/2020 08:34

Plus by Xmas, a lot of students will have already had Covid and will likely be immune (for a few months at least).

From what I've heard from my dd the majority of students have had it - in fact it's been hard to avoid catching it in the huge halls of residences.

Thankfully the vast majority seem to be asymptomatic.

So yes my expectation is that by Christmas most will hopefully have some immunity.

mumsneedwine · 28/10/2020 08:38

I've not been able to see my mum since going back to school in September. I call everyday but her dementia is getting so much worse and I'm not sure she'll recognise me now. But what choice do I have ? Not like I wfh or have the option to. We are now trying to make the decision whether it's better to risk seeing her so she has some quality of life, even though I risk giving her Covid.
The reality for many people is that things are tough and tough decisions are being made daily. Having my kids home for Xmas is a very easy decision for me.

Sonnenscheins · 28/10/2020 08:42

We are now trying to make the decision whether it's better to risk seeing her so she has some quality of life, even though I risk giving her Covid.

I think Boots is soon offering quick 30 minute tests to check for Covid. That might be an option for you, to be able to see your mum?

Scottandcharlene · 28/10/2020 11:01

@mumsneedwine I’m so sorry your dd is having such a tough time, I hope that it is some consolation that with such a long course they will get a better experience for most of the course (please let this be true!). The situation with your mum is heartbreaking. My mum had dementia and I would have been devastated if I couldn’t see her.

GCAcademic · 28/10/2020 11:06

@Sonnenscheins

Plus by Xmas, a lot of students will have already had Covid and will likely be immune (for a few months at least).

From what I've heard from my dd the majority of students have had it - in fact it's been hard to avoid catching it in the huge halls of residences.

Thankfully the vast majority seem to be asymptomatic.

So yes my expectation is that by Christmas most will hopefully have some immunity.

A couple of weeks ago, it was estimated that around 1 in 23 students have had it, so not a majority by any means. More than likely we're going to see a replay of this term's outbreaks when the spring term starts in January. Rinse and repeat for however long this virus goes on for, because no students and very few staff are going to be able to get the vaccine.
mumsneedwine · 28/10/2020 11:26

@Sonnenscheins trouble with that is Covid has an incubation period of up to 14 days. So because I test positive one day doesn't mean I am not carrying it. I need 2 weeks off to be sure I'm clear.
@Scottandcharlene DD is coping ok thanks to lovely flatmates. Trying to keep in touch with the few vets she met in first week. But it's not great and certainly if she'd known how bad it would be she'd have probably taken a year out (had that option). She had a job at Waitrose and would have earned lots of money. This was not what she was promised. And it's very very expensive.
Unis have a duty of care to ensure students are looked after for that £9,250. And £7,400 in accommodation. Bristol have tried their best but the welfare staff are overwhelmed with isolating students.
I find it laughable that anyone thinks they will keep my kids from coming home. If that's not safe then how is me being in school with thousands of other families kids ??? Answers on a po

mumsneedwine · 28/10/2020 11:26

Postcard 😊

cologne4711 · 28/10/2020 11:51

When half of MN seems to be preparing for a "normal" Christmas, with a fuck you to those of us following regulations (often at considerable personal costs of all sorts) I think it's outrageous that parents come in here and slag off universities

If my ds were at university now, I would have him home. This is his home. His welfare comes above any small risk of passing on covid to me and his dad (we are not vulnerable, though his dad is in his late 50s). If my mother wanted to join us for Christmas, that would be her decision. I am struggling to see how anyone else would suffer as a result of this. Unless you mean we are selfish because we would need incubators and take them away from other people. That is vanishingly unlikely, even for my mother. And the assumption here is that ds would give us covid rather than the other way round.

If I worked in a care home I might have to come up with a different solution. But I don't. The risk profile is small.

As it is ds goes into 6th form college every day, mixes with lots of people and comes home every day.

HelloMissus · 28/10/2020 12:08

Students will make their way home whatever the government say.
For a lot of them, their loans and allowances aren’t enough for yet extra costs of a month in their uni accommodation anyway.

TheNavigator · 28/10/2020 14:19

Students will make their way home whatever the government say.

Of course they will, and idiots like John Swinney just confirm their idiocy when they pretend they can stop them. Seriously - what would the legislation look like that could prevent students coming home and how would it be enforced?

I am not worried, because my daughter is coming home, I am enraghed by the meaningless posturing of a highly ineffectual politician, pretending he can do things he plainly can't. It undermines compliance with reasonable and agreed measures in response to the pandemic when politicans come out with stupid, unforceable decrees.

Sonnenscheins · 28/10/2020 14:24

Of course they will, and idiots like John Swinney just confirm their idiocy when they pretend they can stop them. Seriously - what would the legislation look like that could prevent students coming home and how would it be enforced?

Exactly. Most students are already arranging their journeys back home for Christmas.

Absolutely ridiculous to think he can force 18 year olds to spend Christmas in isolated halls of residences Shock

HelloMissus · 28/10/2020 14:50

And even if the government could somehow trap freshers in their halls, what is the proposal for the majority who live in privately rented houses and flats?

BackforGood · 28/10/2020 15:31

14 days in a small flat with people she's known for 5 weeks is tough. She wants to step outside. She wants to play her sport. And she'd quite like to see her parents

My dd is in self isolation at the moment as one of her flatmates has tested positive. Yes, she wants to go outside. Yes, she wants to play sport however, if she were self isolating at home, she wouldn't be able to do any of those things either. We can video chat, but, most 18 / 19 yr olds will have more fun in a flat of 5,6,7 other young people, than trapped in their house with their parents, I'd have thought.

user1497207191 · 28/10/2020 15:33

@BackforGood

14 days in a small flat with people she's known for 5 weeks is tough. She wants to step outside. She wants to play her sport. And she'd quite like to see her parents

My dd is in self isolation at the moment as one of her flatmates has tested positive. Yes, she wants to go outside. Yes, she wants to play sport however, if she were self isolating at home, she wouldn't be able to do any of those things either. We can video chat, but, most 18 / 19 yr olds will have more fun in a flat of 5,6,7 other young people, than trapped in their house with their parents, I'd have thought.

That depends on their flat mates. Some will be lucky and find themselves in flats with like minded people, but I suspect most won't. In "normal" times, they'd make friends with students on their course, or via clubs & societies or sports, but they can't do that at the moment. If they don't really gel with their flat mates, they're pretty much stuffed.
Phphion · 28/10/2020 16:08

And even if the government could somehow trap freshers in their halls, what is the proposal for the majority who live in privately rented houses and flats?

I don't think the debate is really around students being specifically banned from travelling. It around whether students could be granted an exemption in the event of a country-wide travel ban preventing all people travelling.

Certainly this is how it has been presented to us as a university and why universities are currently considering the possibility of switching to online teaching for the last 2 weeks of term. Students who self-isolated for two weeks would be granted an exemption and allowed to travel home for Christmas, regardless of any other existing bans.