Is there any thought yet as to how students are going to get home for Christmas?

[TawnyPippit]

I haven’t seen anything, but I’m assuming some thought must be being given to this, whether by the universities or the govt?. DS is in catered accommodation and I can’t believe that that that would keep on going all over the Christmas period. I’m not a Christmas obsessive - DS is just coming to the end of his first lockdown period, and also can’t come home for reading week as originally planned as we are Tier 2. But I have told him (rashly?) that it will all be ok for Christmas.

I guess the way it would currently work would be to do another period of isolation - which hopefully will be just 7 days by then - and then come and re-join our household. He is in Tier 1, so coming home is not a problem for him, its us that cannot mix households ATM.

I suspect its all too far away to strategise about at the moment as we will likely have several different iterations of lockdown restrictions before then, just idle musings.

Yes, I would sacrifice my own health in order to protect that of my DD's mental health!

Would you expect everyone else to feel exactly about your DD as you do? Because that is the issue. When we make decisions, we need to be aware of the impact on others.

If I were to prioritise the health of one student over another, I would be being totally unprofessional. That is what universities have to consider.

@MissMarplesGlove no one else is going to be affected by DD coming home. I don't intend to go anywhere over Xmas. So no one else's business. Eldest worked on Covid ward all summer and she will also be home with me for Xmas. My family have put themselves in the firing line and we need to be together. Mental health of our young people is going to cause issues for a generation.

@pamdemic in tier 2 people from different households are not meant to meet indoors. That’s the rule that would prevent your daughter coming home

I am also happy to accept the risk of getting Covid from my dd coming home at Christmas because her mental health is more important to me.

We will of course be following the rules when she's here.

That’s the rule that would prevent your daughter coming home

Do we really want such a rule as a society? A rule that forbids 18 year olds who've been living away from home in pretty isolated circumstances, from seeing their family for Christmas?

Don't worry Gavin Williamson has said he'll make an announcement about this very soon.

Think he's still working on the plans for extra tuition for the (last) summer holidays!

It’s a no win situation, of course no one wants to put someone else’s health at risk but most parents will prioritise their dc’s mental health when it comes to it. My own dd has always been very resilient but I was shocked at the change in her back in March/April when everything changed so quickly. Since she has been at university she has thrived and is happier now than she has been since March but she was lucky. She gets on well with her flatmates and is very busy doing a course she has wanted to do since she was 10. The reality for many students is the experience is awful and for some it is seriously damaging. As I said before I am pinning my hopes on science - if Boots can do rapid testing then that should be available to students to enable them to come home safely. As dd1 said to me this morning - it’s pants - a pantdemic.

@paprikasausage

To tier 1 from unis in tier 3 and then arranging meet ups with other friends back home.

And here's the problem.
Not that they might catch it, potentially not that we will catch it but that they will give it to others- grandparents/family members, people at the local shop/garage/restaurant/bar/supermarket/their friends who will give it to their own friends and family and on an on.

So for the sake of a couple of days festivities it makes no sense for them to come home. There will be other Christmases, there will be other parties, there will be more family time, and there will be more holidays to come.

I know we are all missing our DC but for goodness sake people, look at the bigger picture.

The "bigger picture" is that the Unis/Govt should never have conned the students into going to live at Unis last month. It was always entirely obvious what would happen. Now, you've thousands of students stuck in tiny rooms whilst the lecturers are doing zoom or whatever from home. My son is really struggling, WILL be coming home shortly and almost certainly won't be going back in January. It's completely pointless him being on site when all the learning is online.

My stepdaughter was meant to go this year but deferred owing to covid.

Most of her lessons would have been online then there's the whole communal living and the "lack of student experience" not to mention the huge waste of money

I don't want to sound awful but am I missing something here? All universities offered deferred places to my step daughter and at least 6/7 friends all going to different places but the biggest issue is why would anyone go or send young people then moan about it??? Everyone was very clear on the situation and Parents should have thought about this in Aug/Sept and my step daughter made the decision herself.

@BitGutted - my DS is at Uni doing his Masters. Wasn’t feasible to defer as he has a graduate job lined to start next September when he’s finished his Masters.

@BitGutted

My stepdaughter was meant to go this year but deferred owing to covid.

Most of her lessons would have been online then there's the whole communal living and the "lack of student experience" not to mention the huge waste of money

I don't want to sound awful but am I missing something here? All universities offered deferred places to my step daughter and at least 6/7 friends all going to different places but the biggest issue is why would anyone go or send young people then moan about it??? Everyone was very clear on the situation and Parents should have thought about this in Aug/Sept and my step daughter made the decision herself.

1. What else were they supposed to do after already stagnating for 6 months - no jobs, no gap year travel, etc.

1. Unis over-promised and under-delivered. My son's uni were saying that there'd be "blended learning" with "some" lectures, tutorials and seminars online instead of in person. They also said that there'd be activities such as Freshers, clubs & societies exhibitions, etc. In reality, none of that has happened - the lecturers aren't even on site so "in person" lectures, teaching etc was never going to happen.

So, no "everyone" wasn't very clear at all. Some Unis have provided a lot more than others. The "way back machine" website is very illuminating to show how the Unis changed their websites over August and September, firstly making out that there'd be lots of reasons to move to Uni (until late August once places had been confirmed and accommodation booked), then changed it during September to be a lot more vague. They were conned, pure and simple!

Novel concept but my step-daughter is volunteering to gain experience and has a part time job

@bitgutted dd had already taken a gap year with volunteering, pt work, work experience etc. Would have travelled if c19 hadn't occurred. Deferring therefore not an option. Some subjects areas discourage it too and for many the 6 month break in studying could have been a problem, let alone 18 months.

What @MissMarplesGlove and @paprikasausage said on the bottom of P1.

When I spoke to dd (first year) last week, she was chatting about what they would do for Christmas is not allowed home - how their flat would get on with life, together, there. We'd miss her of course, but what a great memory for them, if it came to that. My older dd is in Wales - I have no idea yet what the situation will be at Christmas, as none of us do. We will get on with whatever we have to face as and when more is known, nearer the time.
Catastrophying about it now isn't going to help anyone.

Unfortunately taking a year out of education doesn’t fit in with many degrees or career plans. DS is making the best of it and getting on with completing his Masters. He’s a cup half full person and will cope with whatever this final year throws at him.

@pamdemic see also families seeing elderly relatives. The rule impacts so many relationships not just those with our young students.

@BitGutted not all universities have had everything cancelled. At my DD’s Uni there have been fewer than 50 COVID cases across 2 campuses, she is actively participating in her extra curricular hobby as are her housemates (different activities), gym and campus eateries open and every other seminar in each of her modules is being held in person. They go out in the local City pubs and get food delivered for nights in. Yes it’s weird but they can and do still have fun!

I am getting really pissed off with attitudes such as @user1497207191 constant refrain (over many threads) that universities have deliberately conned parents & students. Direct your anger to the place it should be - an incompetent government that makes decisions only for political expendiency, and the optics.

If you knew of the time & effort in planning which started - for me - at an 8am meeting on March 16th, when my whole Department gathered to sort out how we would deliver the next 2 weeks of quite intense laboratory/practical assessments , and how we would manage all the other teaching. What we could maintain and what we'd have to change, and what we'd have to jettison. There's been no time to reflect on what this means for me and my colleagues and our families. We don't have that luxury - we're already working regularly way beyond the 37.5 hours we're paid for - I can't remember a weekend this year when I haven't done at least a day's work.

It continued from then, throughout the summer (I've had a week's holiday this year), and we were still hoping that we could do mostly in person teaching from September.

It's cost my university 20 million pounds, and that doesn't include the rent refunds for March through to July. Jobs have gone. At other places whole departments are being closed down.

We have tried to influence government advice, but there's little you can do with a shite incompetent and corrupt government that really doesn't care about how many people die. Oh, they care about how it looks - the optics, but they don't actually care.

So what do you want? Do you want universities to be there after we get through this pandemic? Do you want staff to become long-term ill, die? Do you want vulnerable and BAME students to become long-term ill and/or die?

We are doing what we can.

And frankly, if you want to bring your DC home, of course you should, but do it safely. And take responsibility for the risks that that incurs. And remember that while you might lay down your life for your DC, you have absolutely no right to expect anyone else to do that, and you should behave so that no-one is put at risk by yours or your DC's decisions. We all have to take responsibility for each other. University staff are duty-bound to do that for all students.

In my eyes it's very much a bigger issue where the government have been negligent and the Universities have just gone along with the negligence because they hadn't got the balls to be honest and upfront about the consequences of students going to university this term.

I have a 40 something year old friend who has just come out of Liverpool hospital after having covid and pneumonia... He said it was truly awful to be sat on a ward with people gasping for breath, new doctors just out of uni completely overwhelmed. Did the student population have an impact.. Of course it did.. Most students are asymptomatic so spreading the virus far and wide within communities. Even a senior member of Manchester Uni said that it was an awful mistake allowing students to go to university knowly with pubs open... 100k plus students arrived in Manchester.

I know a lot of parents are glad there kids are at uni (mine is getting along great too making the most of a bad situation). The cost to business, our economy, the NHS and lives is a very high price to pay for children attending uni when they could have studied at home this term.

I for one would have paid this quarters accommodate to save lives, businesses and protect the NHS. Its incredibly selfish for Universities to worry about their own future when no doubt if it came to it the government would have stepped in.. Private businesses don't have this luxury and many employees are loosing their jobs, loosing their homes etc.

I don't have any sympathy with Universities they were woefully ill prepared and have the audacity to say they will strike if learning doesn't go f2f.

" you have absolutely no right to expect anyone else to do that, and you should behave so that no-one is put at risk "

Absolutely - and the reverse is true too. No-one should expect me to put my child's health (self harm, suicide and substance abuse being far more risky to the 18-25yos than covid will ever be) in order to protect THEIR health.

I'm expected to put my life at risk every day. As a teacher. Seeing my child seems a comparatively minor risk.

.... child's health at risk ...

dd is tested weekly, she's in a low tier area as are we, we have a isolation plan worked out so no elderly relatives will be put at risk. She's coming home for Christmas.