Is there any thought yet as to how students are going to get home for Christmas?

[TawnyPippit]

I haven’t seen anything, but I’m assuming some thought must be being given to this, whether by the universities or the govt?. DS is in catered accommodation and I can’t believe that that that would keep on going all over the Christmas period. I’m not a Christmas obsessive - DS is just coming to the end of his first lockdown period, and also can’t come home for reading week as originally planned as we are Tier 2. But I have told him (rashly?) that it will all be ok for Christmas.

I guess the way it would currently work would be to do another period of isolation - which hopefully will be just 7 days by then - and then come and re-join our household. He is in Tier 1, so coming home is not a problem for him, its us that cannot mix households ATM.

I suspect its all too far away to strategise about at the moment as we will likely have several different iterations of lockdown restrictions before then, just idle musings.

@goodbyestranger not even going to engage today. I'm at work teaching. Not sure what everyone else is doing today but try and stay safe, I can't unfortunately as my job won't let me.

But it isn't the LAW ATM, Stranger.

Ds2 has autism, he is staying. He is happy. But he might deteriorate if he was left without any social interaction or structured physical activity and no one can tell in advance whether that might be the case. He doesn't have a "serious mental health condition" but he might wither, go downhill. ATM he is productive, resilient, interactive, busy..uni is best place for him and he loves following rules, terrified of breaking them tbh.
I hope you are right, but I don't think you should make assumptions about mental health in others. No it isn't the trenches, but ds was told, no travel for tier 3, so he hasn't had visits, or travelled back. To be told that his ,11 weeks are now compulsory is moving the goal posts isn't it?

But just because schools and Unis are important does not mean they are safe. They are not. The rules make no sense.

I agree.

But I gather that the idea is, that if we all follow strict guidelines in terms of mixing, distancing etc etc, then the lack of safety in schools and universities (although teaching in universities is very safe - the main transmissions are mixing in student houses & halls of residence), then the levels of transmissions in education can be contained, rather than spread more widely through the community.

It doesn't mean that schools are safe, of course. I think school teachers have been hung out to dry by this Government.

Nettleskeins I'm talking as a general principle. If something is clearly stated to be the law then people can't pick pick their own selection, according to what the laws they're ok with and the ones they're not, which seems to be the way certain posters are going. That is supremely self indulgent.

The trouble is our dc are all having very different experiences which largely comes down to luck as to who they are living with and where and what they are studying. If your dc (like my dd) gets on well with their flatmates, is enjoying the course, has quite a bit of face to face and is coping then you are very lucky. For some none of these things are in place and anyone would struggle in that situation. The student I know who is struggling has no friends, her course is 100% online and she has had serious mental health issues in the past. She is going home today and I thinks she’s doing the right thing. I know the term Mental Health covers a huge range of severity, but as any teacher will tell you, the epidemic of self harm that has grown over the last few years is real and a huge concern. In an ideal world universities would be the very best place for students to be right now, but we are far from that ideal.

Having said that, I really hope most students will stay where they are, and that only the ones who really need to move do so, but I am an eternal optimist!

University sports will have to close from tomorrow- in line with what is likely to become law tomorrow.

This isn’t anything universities want to do - my place had just restarted sports and extra-curricular activities. We’re pretty gutted to have to close them again.

Exactly ScotlandCharlene - it’s so varied

It is certainly very complicated in England from tomorrow.

Seems to allow "indoor gyms, fitness studios, indoor sports facilities and other indoor leisure centres for supervised activities for children" www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/1200/pdfs/uksi_20201200_en.pdf page 19
So eg I was 17 when I first went to university so therefore universities presumably could still allow indoor stuff for any student not yet 18 in England.

Page 9 allows some supervised activities for children as long as it is to enable a parent to work - it does not say both parents so I suppose if one is a housewife but having the children at home means the working parent cannot concentrate you are probably still okay but if the housewife is home alone and just wants to put her feet up then not allowed.

Not much about students in the regs as far as I can see so far other than households and halls of residence.
So nothing stopping them changing accommodation, going home to care for granny for a weekend or whatever obviously with the massive caveat that university rules apply on top so if they will withdraw your place if you preserve your mental health by going home there is an immediate interesting legl issue - do we ensure the life of the student who would otherwise kill herself or go for the "greater good" of letting a lot of grannies live by stopping the student going home? Might need a test case to decide a bit like that early solicitor's letter when the initial rules only let those with autism out once a day and the state backed down in the face of a legal letter.

This one is interesting - you can leave the house to get food for a vulnerable person and that includes anyone with a BMI over 40. Will the police be carrying scales with them to check weights?

with the massive caveat that university rules apply on top so if they will withdraw your place if you preserve your mental health by going home there is an immediate interesting legl issue - do we ensure the life of the student who would otherwise kill herself or go for the "greater good" of letting a lot of grannies live by stopping the student going home?

I don't know of ANY university doing that. It doesn't help to catastrophise about universities' punitive actions - at my place, we're hadrly taking any disciplinary action, students get extensions, and there was a no detriment policy. Quite the reverse of what you're imagining.

I've just run a seminar with several absences because of students travelling to or from home. In normal times, those absences would be taken seriously and call a student in for a chat, if their absences hit 3 or more in a module. But I'm not really doing that now, because it seems to harsh in the light of the difficulties under which we're all living.

I think the govt assumes most people dont read the small print, but will generally avoid going out much. It would be perfectly possible to use click and collect twice a day, it isn't illegal, but people listen to the message and avoid it, compared to their normal retail opportunities which they might perceive psychologically to be unlimited before lockdown. I don't mean postal delivery btw, I mean driving to pick stuff up. People tend to less of it, but not because it is illegal, but because they think it might be less public spirited to do so.

That was to Xenia. Thank you for linking to the actual law btw.

Why do university sports have to close?surely it is an educational setting?

I haven't studied university sports issues to see what the regulations say. The regulations IF they are approved today - they are not yet law - are the law and guidance by the state is not the law (although not following guidance could mean an employer is more likely to be sued by an employee so not always a good idea to ignore guidance).
I looks like regulation 16 says business on the schedule part 2 must close including indoor and out door gyms - so starting point is those business must close. Then there are the exceptions for elite sport.

"facilities for training by elite sportspersons, including stables, indoor gyms, fitness studios, and other indoor sports facilities, and any outdoor facilities for sport; (d)indoor fitness and dance studios by professional dancers and choreographers"...

So if instead you are not running a business of a gym but providing it at your school or university or in your family home or in your care home I think it is not banned by regulation 16 ie not forced to close. I have not looked at any other bits of the regulations that might make it not be able to operate though.....

DS has rang - quite a number of his friends have decided to go home today before the lockdown and plan on doing online classes for the rest of this term. He’s decided to stay at Uni until his planned date for coming home of the second weekend in December. He’s some f2f classes and a module to complete. He’s got his friends around him, food and drinks so is happy!

It doesn't help to catastrophise about universities' punitive actions

No, but I suppose certain Cambridge students might be tempted to do so, if the Tab (and the Telegraph) is to be believed:
thetab.com/uk/cambridge/2020/11/04/students-told-they-will-not-receive-their-degree-if-they-leave-cambridge-for-lockdown-141856

I would of course let DD come home if she wanted to. assuming she has isolated. if her household feel they want to leave and she is left alone, for her own mental health she would be best with her family for example.
but the media have made a big deal about it which does not help those in two minds.

Cambridge has always required their students to keep term ie to be resident in Cambridge (there's a permitted distance) for every night of term, unless they seek authorisation. If you do not do this, you can be thrown out, and that is a longstanding stipulation. They also ban students from working during term time.

Remember their terms are only 8 weeks

Authorisation to leave Cambridge will be granted for medical and other exceptional reasons, so those who need interventions for MH reasons should be OK. It used to be straightforward to get permission for a weekend away for wider family reasons, but I expect that's been suspended.

The Cambridge policy seems perfectly reasonable. It simply prevents people using 'mental health' reasons spuriously, because the difficulties/ condition needs to be evidenced. That's responsible, not draconian. That was my point up thread.

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/manchester-university-installs-new-lockdown-19228777

Trouble at Manchester Uni. A fence was put up around one of the campus sites. Apparently it is now going to be removed.

@Parker231 I believe it's already gone. Students are angry.

www.manchester.ac.uk/discover/news/statement-and-apology-from-the-president-and-vice-chancellor/

[quote mumsneedwine]@Parker231 I believe it's already gone. Students are angry. [/quote]
Rightly so

What was the uni thinking?!!

Manchester (first Met and now the University (where I went so I am normally a fan)) do not seem to be treating students very well. If you have spent over £9000 on fees and then £6000 on rent for what is probably a much worse tiny room with no proper garden than your own home in some middle class cases and then you are penned in like a prisoner in G Bay no wonder students get angry or want to go home. It is our biggest breach of human rights on such a big scale in England probably ever.

Even details like whether the new English regulations which allow you to meet a non household non support bubble friend on a walk or in the park and if you can hold the hand of that person (I think you can by law) is all set out. Given hardly anyone young or who is not sick gets very ill with CV19 it is not in my view for the greater good however well meaning. However 73% support the current lockdown so I know I am in a minority and I am AM following the law which is pretty easy as a home worker since 1994 with a 5000 sq foot house and 3/4 acre of garden etc etc I have nothing to complain about.