Is there any thought yet as to how students are going to get home for Christmas?

[TawnyPippit]

I haven’t seen anything, but I’m assuming some thought must be being given to this, whether by the universities or the govt?. DS is in catered accommodation and I can’t believe that that that would keep on going all over the Christmas period. I’m not a Christmas obsessive - DS is just coming to the end of his first lockdown period, and also can’t come home for reading week as originally planned as we are Tier 2. But I have told him (rashly?) that it will all be ok for Christmas.

I guess the way it would currently work would be to do another period of isolation - which hopefully will be just 7 days by then - and then come and re-join our household. He is in Tier 1, so coming home is not a problem for him, its us that cannot mix households ATM.

I suspect its all too far away to strategise about at the moment as we will likely have several different iterations of lockdown restrictions before then, just idle musings.

I've been thinking about this this morning. My DD is in a tier 3 area but in private accommodation. Her uni and work are both from home and she spends all her time alone. I will be bringing her home at Xmas as there is no way she's staying alone. I will drive from my tier 1 area to collect her so that she doesn't have to use public transport. This is her home, I am not sure what else I am supposed to do?

We will possibly look at taking dds car up to uni and then she can make her mind up when she wants to come home. She can easily SI in my house because we have a rabbits warren of a house with two staircases and she has an ensuite room.. She seems happy at the moment.. Their townhouse had their own Halloween party last night and labs start this month (hopefully f2f). I think they'll miss going out for meals and going to the gym..but hopefully they will find something else to entertain them.. I sent a table tennis kit a few weeks ago which they can set up in the kitchen.

DD up in Scotland. Her flatmates seem to be in panic mode, so she's coming home this week along with one other, as she'd really struggle mentally on her own and we don't have jobs we can drop for 48 hours to do a round 1500 trip.

I'm not sure technically if she can just come back, but uni work is online. It's easy to SD in our house, just need to be very careful with hygiene/cleaning. She had work lined up over Xmas (keyworker role), but can start early in two weeks as they'd happily have her full-time if she wasn't at uni.

DD's university have now said they will retain their 2 f2f sessions during lockdown. Her boyfriend at a different university has had all his cancelled. Half his flat mates have gone home. DD's flat mates had already bailed - older students who, should have been in placement but even teaching practise is now virtual for them - so they went a whole back.

DD's boyfriend is on his way over today to stay with DD's for the lockdown. As she's now a single adult household it makes sense for them to share her flat for three or four weeks, so she's not on her own. Better than coming home too as she can still go to her r2f sessions.

I cannot find the draft new English regulations to be debated in parliament today to come into force tomorrow but may be I am just looking in the wrong place. They might well say something about students.

I believe that they have been advised to stay where they are. My DS had only 2 weeks f2f, then had to self isolate so missed the next one and now it is all online. He still wants to stay in his flat, though. It is a relief for us as he would be wanting to see his gf if he was here.

Well, I've seen the letters from the Minister of Education, Michelle Donellan, sent to ALL university students, telling them they should not travel between university & home in November. I've also seen the the extremely direct and demanding letter to university managements requiring them to ensure that students stay put. If universities do things to ensure this, it will be at the direct request of the national government (and the letter is extremely directive - no ifs or buts, no exceptions). I don't think I've seen communications between the Education Department & universities quite as directive or requiring us to do their work for them (apart from the legalities of the Prevent strategy).

Students can not be legally required to follow any separate laws though. So every adult in the country will have the same law and not be allowed to travel. How on Earth a Uni is supposed to police this I don't know. My eldest has her car and lives in a house and Uni don't know where she is.

DH teaches at Uni. They are teaching face to face until 18 November, after which all work can be done remotely, so that students can self-isolate for 2 weeks until the lockdown is due to be lifted on 2 Dec.

DD said the letter was pretty ferocious.

She is at home anyway as they made a very early decision to have her one year intercalation degree on line, at least till Christmas. She is sad she wont get the chance to actually meet people from her chosen field, and gutted though that they have cancelled University sport. Our new neighbours got in builders soon after the start of the first lockdown to carry out major structural works in a London terrace house, and retreated to the country. The noise forced DH to have to retreat to the small flat near my late mother's that we had failed to sell. So DD was on her own with no chance to meet any of her course mates, the fun of negotiating times for project work with people in different time zones, and now, no chance really to see anyone other than an occasional walk in the park.

Apparently her (large) University had five cases last week.

I have returned home to be with her, leaving poor DH, who is hellishly busy, on his own for the month. We have been so careful, as have others in our part of London, after being hit hard by the first wave. Infection rates are now pretty low, even though it is a high density area and schools are open. It feels as if we are being penalised for less cautious behaviours in other parts of the country.

*Need", I hope it wasn't these building works www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-54794723 Whole London house collapsed last night due to basement works below....

I was wrong above about the debate on the new law being today. it is tomorrow but even so with laws in force on Thursday in England they are cutting it quite fine to let us read and learn what they say....

I cannot remember if in the 1980s we were not allowed by university rules to go home in term time. I never did except once when I went to a certificates presentation back at my school in term time and then of course interviews - I had 29 interviews in London in my last year at university before getting a job - was up and down to London like a yoyo. I was obviously so bad at interviews (and we had the worst unemployment for 50 years, worse even than this year)

DS and his friends have said they will obviously follow the latest lockdown rules and not travel to and from home. He plans on coming back home for the Christmas break second weekend in December. He has his car with him so can be home within 2 hours.

I'm so fucked off with dd2's situation.
She arrived in Liverpool (for a masters) promised 3 days a week face to face teaching. A few days later Liverpool was classified as Tier 3, and her teaching changed to 2 days online and Thursdays f2f. She is in a uni flat with one other post grad - she is following all restrictions, he is visiting other people.

The university have given no guidance, so her course leaders are just making up a plan. They want them in this Thursday for a f2f day. Then next week is reading week, and then they think the next 3 Thursdays all be online due to lockdown, and then the last two Thursdays of term will be back in person.

This just seems like worst possible combination! By making this Thursday face to face they are effectively blocking people from going home because of the guidance that students should stay in one place.
And by insisting on face to face sessions for the last two weeks of term they are making a safe "go home/see elderly relatives for Christmas" impossible.

Just seems stupid.

I'm off work till next Wednesday, so could get her tomorrow, but she's worried about missing Thursday's sessions. I could get her on Friday, but dh is telling me I'd be breaking the law! I don't want her doing a 4 hour train journey to come home and risk bringing home god knows what, and she wouldn't do that. She's suffered with mental health issues for years and I'm worried about her. Argh.

Atia, might it be worth speaking to student.support services about your dds worries/background issues, as a mitigating reason for her to attend thurs then return home after for four weeks. It definitely would be travelling to support a vulnetabke person, or failing that, for education reasons (dd cannot learn online alone, with anxiety, in a lockdown setting) I suspect.dozens hundreds of students are having to make these welfare decisions and the universities just need to be prodded to sign you off in mitigating circs.
It always the conscientious students who carry.the mental burden of following the guidance in these circs, so unfair.

Atia, might it be worth speaking to student.support services about your dds worries/background issues, as a mitigating reason for her to attend thurs then return home after for four weeks. It definitely would be travelling to support a vulnetabke person, or failing that, for education reasons (dd cannot learn online alone, with anxiety, in a lockdown setting) I suspect.dozens hundreds of students are having to make these welfare decisions and the universities just need to be prodded to sign you off in mitigating circs.
It always the conscientious students who carry.the mental burden of following the guidance in these circs, so unfair.

@AtiaoftheJulii

I'm so fucked off with dd2's situation. She arrived in Liverpool (for a masters) promised 3 days a week face to face teaching. A few days later Liverpool was classified as Tier 3, and her teaching changed to 2 days online and Thursdays f2f. She is in a uni flat with one other post grad - she is following all restrictions, he is visiting other people.

The university have given no guidance, so her course leaders are just making up a plan. They want them in this Thursday for a f2f day. Then next week is reading week, and then they think the next 3 Thursdays all be online due to lockdown, and then the last two Thursdays of term will be back in person.

This just seems like worst possible combination! By making this Thursday face to face they are effectively blocking people from going home because of the guidance that students should stay in one place.
And by insisting on face to face sessions for the last two weeks of term they are making a safe "go home/see elderly relatives for Christmas" impossible.

Just seems stupid.

I'm off work till next Wednesday, so could get her tomorrow, but she's worried about missing Thursday's sessions. I could get her on Friday, but dh is telling me I'd be breaking the law! I don't want her doing a 4 hour train journey to come home and risk bringing home god knows what, and she wouldn't do that. She's suffered with mental health issues for years and I'm worried about her. Argh.

This is very similar to one of my DDs.

She's not had a single f2f yet, but apparently the last Wednesday of term will be f2f?! She's massively upset and feels like it's a tactic to stop them returning home for Christmas. Her uni has been spectacularly unhelpful as well. She and her sister (at a different uni in the same city) live in a flat when when they both had to isolate her uni wouldn't give her the same assistance as they were given the students in halls - which is literally across the road from her.

Whereas her sister's uni has really active in checking in on all their first year students and were really helpful when the girls had to isolate. The lovely lady from student services there even helped DD2 get sorted with an urgent Dr's appointment when it was needed as she couldn't even get to speak to anyone from her own uni.

Covid is going to massively change the "student satisfaction" surveys. The differences in the way different unis are handling it is striking. Students won't forget which unis have treated them badly and those unis WILL suffer in the future when they plummet down the league tables and find themselves with fewer applicants.

My eldest has her car and lives in a house and Uni don't know where she is

As you say @mumsneedwine students must follow the legal requirements like every other citizen of this country - which means no travelling.

I'm not sure if people understand - one of the reasons the country is being put into lockdown is precisely so that education for our young people - kindergarten to PhD - can continue. It's what we're all doing for the younger generation.

@MissMarplesGlove I'm a teacher. I'm in work every day with 2,000 others. No distancing, few masks and it is freezing today as windows open. Can already not feel my fingers. My DD is a medical student who worked on COVID ward all summer.
I understand better than most about education. But just because schools and Unis are important does not mean they are safe. They are not. The rules make no sense. My kids are staying at Uni. But if they need to come home due to mental health then they will.

User...you have missed the point. That legal requirement not to travel only kicks in on Thurs.
And precisely because of the fear of breaking lockdown later, in case they end up marooned on campus and cannot cope, students are heading home NOW.
Whereas if there was some indication of end of term plans, or more openness around the issue of campus isolation, ending of sport and most activities designed to buffer students against isolation/poor mental health,
THEN students wouldn't be rushing home whilst they CAN.
Mine are staying, I hope I am not making a terrible mistake to advise them to do so.

Sorry, that was to MissMarplesGlove, not User!

'Mental health' can't be used as an elastic term to justify doing what you prefer regardless of the law. Medical students in particular have a moral obligation not to treat the law like a pick 'n mix. It's incredibly selfish. Only very serious mental health conditions should justify an exemption, not feeling a bit fed up and wanting home made pud.

This is likely to be the new law for England - November www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/1200/pdfs/uksi_20201200_en.pdf

By 'the law' in this case, I mean the regulations designed to help the medical profession manage the fall out from the virus. Clearly a medical student has no greater or lesser moral obligation not to nick a car etc.