Conservatoire vs Music Degree?

[maggiethecat]

For a long time we thought dd was keen on conservatoire and so encouraged her to be looking at the various options here and abroad. More recently she's been talking about a university degree in music. (she can start conservatoire/uni in 2021 or take a gap year).

Other than knowing that conservatoire is more performance based than degree courses can someone explain what the differences are likely to be generally between these 2 options. Do they necessarily open up different career paths?

It depends very much on the institution. Some universities provide excellent perfomance style training but with a more academic focus. Other are more heavily weighted towards teaching/arts admin or music technology.

She'll have to do some research depending on what she's looking for (not sure she knows atm).

I'll have a look to see if prospectuses give an idea of what they lean toward.

Conservatories are totally focused on training for performers. Whereas universities are more general and really good if you are unsure whether you might want to be a performer, teacher, researcher, work on the admin side, or any number of related jobs.

Lots of people who study music at uni at undergrad level then go on to do a postgrad at conservatoire if they want to focus on performance.

If your DD is interested in the performance side and wanted to continue to progress her playing ability as part of a uni based degree, it is worth checking with any university that she is considering as to what they offer in terms of tuition that is included in the £9k. Some universities may not include instrumental lessons or have a specialist teacher on your DD’s instrument (some seem to lean more towards popular music/music tech) and she may therefore need to pay privately for instrumental lessons. Some universities offer the BMus rather than the BA in Music which will have more performance units as a half-way between the two option she could consider if she wasn’t sure yet. As a previous poster has suggested, she could then apply to do Post-grad at a conservatoire.
The deadline for conservatoire applications for 2021 start was 1st October but some conservatoires might accept late applications if that was what she wanted to do.

Thank you both for that.

She is a bit uncertain about what she'd like to do but it seems sensible to do the BA or BMus if she's not committed to performance at this stage.

I think the plan is conservatoire in 2022 rather than 2021 if that's the route she chooses.

Do you have to do an undergraduate course that includes some form of music to be eligible for post grad conservatoire?

Not necessarily, just a high standard of performance.

Ok, so probably by audition as required for undergrad conservatoire.

I'm just looking at courses and seeing what's out there as she's gone into secret mode - not talking much about what she wants to do. I feel that I need to do this to be able to even initiate some kind of chat.

My children father did a BMus (and FRCO and PGCE). I have also worked with a lot of lawyers who read music at very good universities and changed to law as a career at university. In my view a BMus keeps more options open and if you still want to make a living playing your music then you still can do after graduating.

It is quite a difficult career to make it in so the more you have to fall back on the better.

I did an academic music degree followed (a few years later) by a conservatoire postgrad. You can message me directly and I can try to answer your DC questions if you’d like?

Xenia - Yep, we realised quite early on that it's not the easiest of careers to make a living from. Definitely in favour of keeping options open although ultimately she will decide.

Weneedmusicandtheatre - I've messaged you.

My children's father's father had a tough time setting up a business and factory in the 1970s with people constantly out on strike and very high taxes so I think he was happy his son went into music (the career in fact of the business owner's own father (also an organist, FRCO etc - that is going back a very long way now.) However we saw all these young brilliant musicians who were the best in their school etc so many of them having to come to my by then teacher husband wanting jobs on pretty low pay teaching music lessons. Not that that is unpleasant to do but it is not the high flying soloist career so many of them had hoped for. it is a bit like acting - a few do really well but a lot end up perhaps not doing so. I think that is why he is glad 2 of ours are lawyers and 2 more hoping to be whilst keeping music as a hobby. However I think I would have been equally happy as a singer than as a lawyer and I don't need much money so who knows. Anyway best to keep as many options open as possible at this stage.

@maggiethecat did you know there are some Academic courses out there that have lessons and links with conservatoires? Credit to @Comefromaway pointed out to me the other day the Birmingham Uni /Royal Conservatoire link. I understand Manchester and Royal Northern is another and Kings College with Royal Academy. Might be worth a look?

Has your DD considered Chichester university? Even though you apply through UCAS university it is actually a conservatoire, and it has a BMus Performance 4-year conservatoire style degree. I don’t have any inside info just came across it as looking for courses for DD and thought it might be useful.

Chichester is a strange one. It’s very active on social media and certainly it’s students are very active in promoting it as having been awarded “conservatoire status” but the thing is there is no such thing as conservatoire status other than being a member of CUKAS which they are not.

Nothing wrong with calling themselves a conservatoire and they seem to have lots of so far satisfied students (at least in the musical theatre world which I’m familiar with) but they have not been awarded a status.

Chichester is good for dance and music theatre, but it's not a conservatoire in the usual sense of the word...

In my view a BMus keeps more options open and if you still want to make a living playing your music then you still can do after graduating.

That's probably slightly confusing advice in the modern era, as Conservatoires confer BMus degrees - so for example, Birming Conservatoire AND Birmingham University (totally different institutions) both award BMus degrees, the conservatoire for their performance-based degree and the university for its more study-of-music based degree.

Conservatoire study is absolutely based around performance - individual lessons and groups will be the core part of the teaching, though there will be lectures on history, teaching etc, the core of the degree is about playing your instrument. Larger groups - orchestras, big bands etc - will be led by faculty members, and the final year will be geared towards 'showcasing' to potential employers / opportunities.

The course may also be focused on a very specific type of music - classical, opera, jazz, rock.

Music degrees are about the study of music - its history, composition, theory, different composers etc etc. There may be a performance element but much may be essentially extracurricular and not part of the course assessment or core teaching.

One option for someone undecided might be the Manchester Joint Course - a bit of both! www.alc.manchester.ac.uk/music/study/courses/joint-course-with-rncm/ Quite a small course, and very competitive - also predominantly aimed at classical musicians.

Sorry, meant to say about employment opportunities:

• Someone from a conservatoire would be more focused on a performance career, and might have an edge over a purely university-based candidate for the same performing role.
• This would be particularly the case in more 'niche' areas, as Conservatoire courses may be more specialised than University ones.
• University-based Music students would be better placed to teach music in schools or lecture on music in universities.
• Both would be equally capable of teaching instrumental music, though Conservatoire-based students will almost certainly have had specific 'teaching music' modules.

Non music careers requiring degrees would be open to both, though the universities offering Music would probably be slightly better-known, in general, to the general 'graduate hiring' employer.

I would have thought the conservatoire is more prestigious, if she wants s future in performance.

@caringcarer

I would have thought the conservatoire is more prestigious, if she wants s future in performance.

Depends slightly on the conservatoire, but yes. However a future in performance (as a paid career) is a long shot for all Music students, so some will want to 'hedge their bets' a bit more, and studying Music as an academic subject may do so.

Cantkeepawayforever - thanks for expanding on the differences between the 2 options and for information on the Manchester joint course. I know that Dd has been leaning toward the London conservatoires if she goes down that route but she's also heard very good things about RNCM.

Yes, so musical genius - probably went to Chesham's etc and might have established a career in teens already - probably know a solo career is possible. Most of the more run of the mill people many of who are really good, probably will not make it as a soloist so keeping options open in my view with a BMus could be a good option.

Although I read law at Manchester University I did masses of music, toured abroad with the chamber choir most of whom read music etc and there were certainly lots of links with RNCM even then. In London where we now live there are certainly loads of good options. I keep mentioning law but that's only because I am a lawyer and there seem to be quite a few lawyers who read music, often even choral or organ scholars at Oxbridge who then realise they may find life financially easier doing law.

Also my children's father's BMus and then PGCE meant he could become head of the music dept in a school etc which was more compatible with family life once we had children than the out of hours relentless life of a performer. Again it kept options open more. I don't however want to put anyone off music. My 3 sons all won music scholarships to their schools and if any had wanted to do music as a career that would be been fine with me.

BMus could be a good option.

Xenia, by BMus you mean 'a music degree from a university', don't you? As i said above, Conservatoires award the BMus degree, so your distinction isn't quite clear.

They are very different environments, at university the education is more theoretical but she'll meet people on different courses and it's arguably a better degree if she doesn't pursue a career in performance. At conservatoire it's a hot house, everyone is living and breathing music, it's world class but there's no escape. In the U.K. the application procedure is separate so nothing to stop applying to both. Dd has friends at both, it comes down to personality, desire, ability, ambition etc as to what is right. One compromise we looked into is at university of Birmingham they can get teaching from the conservatoire. My dd decided on university but us toying with a masters at conservatoire, though she's changed her focus to conducting and composition which being at university allowed her to explore.

Ps you can go from any degree to postgraduate conservatoire, my friends degree is in history! My dd took a gap year and applied after a levels

My dh did a Bmus at a conservatoire. He is now teaching in further & higher education.

One of his fellow students decided to go into law after music college. He is now a barrister.