good MH support at LSE, Kings etc?

[ComplexNeeds]

How do you find out about the support universities provide for DC who have existing mental health issues please? It’s really difficult to tell from their websites and tbh they could ‘say’ anything on a website. How do we really find out?

There was a programme on radio 4 about this not long ago where there was a chancellor of one of the unis who has done a lot of work on this. I can't remember the uni name though! However, I think the university's access to mental health services is unlikely to be any better than the services in the city itself. In many places services for adults are dire. Most people have absolutely no idea until they or someone in their family experiences a crisis. In general terms, I would be looking at other protective factors like campus universities with guaranteed accommodation on campus. If you have very serious concerns, why not source a local counsellor wherever she goes and fund a fortnightly session for your dd?

Very few campus universities, or indeed any university, offers 3 years on campus. I assume they don’t have hubs for dc with mental health issues where these dc can live for 3 years on site.

@PresentingPercy

I think referrals to DC who are different to be divisive and lacking in understanding of the perspectives of others. You would not say that if you knew these dc had mental health problems but I guess some would see these “parry” dc as less deserving of help and are to be shunned.

It’s clear from past posts that some people do see “party kids” in a derogatory way and as at being at fault god any problems they may have. They’re also quick to attach a “party” label when hilariously it’s often students having a ‘normal’ student experience (there is a range of ‘normal’ student experiences). But I don’t want to get into that!

What I find offensive is this association between students with pre-existing MH conditions and drugs, or rather the deliberate steer of the conversation to drugs. Most students with pre-existing MH conditions will never have a drug problem. Some of them will be on prescription meds (very strong or controlled ones in some cases) and will be diligent about following strict advice to avoid other substances for counter indication purposes.

For students with MH conditions there will be a range of possible ‘triggers’, of which drug use - either their own or their flat mates’ - is only one. Some such students with MH issues will be able to deal robustly with having “party” flatmates and quickly solve the issue; it may be hard for some posters to believe but often people with MH issues are extremely resilient and adaptive in many situations. Having had to deal with their own issues and a harsh world, they’re often far from being coddled, delicate flowers who crumble at the first sign of trouble.

I think you are absolutely right JunoTurner and the references to party animals and drug takers isn’t helpful. I cannot see it gas much bearing in DC with pre existing MH issues. I see students as different people who bring a myriad of life experiences to university and some not be wholesome and some will test boundaries. The trick for wellbeing is to associate with people you get along with and will hopefully be observant and supportive if necessary. I do think many young people at university have to be resilient and definitely those that come with MH issues.

I know few universities have halls of residence now with formal meals but this set up actually helps when DC are absent. It’s noticed by their fellow students. Bristol actually still has these halls. Less students sit in their rooms and there are no kitchens for students. The move away from a collegiate way of living isn’t necessarily a good idea but most students prefer self catering. I think it can be quite lonely.

The trick for wellbeing is to associate with people you get along with and will hopefully be observant and supportive if necessary

Ah if only it was that simple...

And oh, if only more people truly understood mental health conditions...

I do not think you can expect the earth from fellow university students. I get that. But people who like you, might look out for you. They might worry if DC spends hours in their room and does not appear for meals. DC do not go to university to truly understand the mental health conditions of others. It's just a plain fact. What they can do is offer support and even advice if they notice it is needed. They may well be more aware than in years gone by but truly understanding every nuance in a hugely complicated area of health is asking too much.

This is a very interesting thread that covers things we are starting to think about already for my dc with pre existing MH problems and on medication who will be going to university in 2022, sothank very much to OP. DS was also starting to think about King’s but for some reason I felt uncomfortable about it. This thread has now highlighted all those reasons and I think they are spot on. All the universities he’s been interested in otherwise are campus Unis.

I’m also nodding along to the very measured dialogue between @Needmoresleep and @JunoTurner as well as finding it refreshing. The term MH, has become all encompassing now to mean everything from feeling sad, to severe clinical diagnosis. This can make it difficult when discussing provision.
@PresentingPercy has made a very valid point that after all’s been said and done, most Unis only provide on campus accomodation for the 1st year, so it might be prudent to consider MH support in the uni town regardless of whether accomodation is on site.

I think getting support and medical expertise in the town or city is vital. Has anywhere truly great care? DD has not found it so in London. Chaotic in fact.

I’m sure this will be taken the wrong way, but is it sometimes safer for students with MH to go to a local university rather than go many miles away? I accept the course needs to be right but having access to MH services that work effectively might be a big consideration rather than moving into the unknown. Maybe?

@presentingpercy maybe. Except not everyone has universities that are local. Those that do may not be all that great. Some DC despite their MH issues have worked their backsides off and are still ambitious and want to go somewhere well regarded. Not sell themselves short. Achieve their potential and contribute fully to society. They absolutely can do this with the right support. Your comment ‘the trick for well-being...’ highlights the huge chasm of MH awareness.
Also, would you suggest these notions to a DC with a physical disability?
Hence this thread and a parent trying to help their DC make the best choices for them. Knowing that some universities get it and others don’t. Trying to work out the best options. And I thank you all for your contributions!
@Shimy there’s a lot to consider. Regardless whether a student lives in or out it is important to understand the university support either way. I’ve learnt a lot here. The main thing it seems is to be upfront about everything and ask lots of questions.

@OP Absolutely. I wasn’t suggesting one should disregard MH provision from the university.

@PresentingPercy I don’t think it’s as simple as going to your local university. My DS is working his socks off to get into a top university for his subject (which is very generic). Ultimately it depends on what level of support the young person needs. One also has to remember that eventually they are going to have to face the big wide world and learn to manage their condition independently as adults, so going away to university might be a first good step in that direction.

If the MH was so poor to the extent of needing to study locally to be near parents etc, then personally I would seek further intervention from clinicians to stabilise them first before contemplating university. although Distance of university would be also be a key deciding factor(amongstothers) so in ds’s case, only universities in England, up north will be a squeeze. That still leaves a good clutch of decent Unis.
Hopefully, most will thrive with some additional support from uni or within their uni town.

I fully understand local isn’t desirable for many dc and yes, selling yourself short isn’t a great idea. I was just thinking about support from parents and known health provision as opposed to starting again. I live in an area where there isn’t a suitable local university but obviously some people do live in cities with the best that’s available.

I don’t really suggest anything as being a solution. Only something to think about. It’s not all black and white and yes, some people with physical disabilities do stay local. It’s up to the young person and if it’s best to stay at home due to ongoing medical needs, then it’s a reasonable suggestion. I think it’s rather divisive to pit one medical issue against another and not necessary.

Anyway having been accused of being woefully inadequate in my comments and reflecting a chasm in MH awareness, I’m happy for those in the know to chat to each other. My DD2 has had MH issues but I’ve clearly learnt nothing from that experience. At least the DC you are referring to have had help.

@PresentingPercy

I do not think you can expect the earth from fellow university students. I get that. But people who like you, might look out for you. They might worry if DC spends hours in their room and does not appear for meals. DC do not go to university to truly understand the mental health conditions of others. It's just a plain fact. What they can do is offer support and even advice if they notice it is needed. They may well be more aware than in years gone by but truly understanding every nuance in a hugely complicated area of health is asking too much.

Other students can offer support and observation, agreed. But to “associate with people you get along with” you actually have to be at the university. Or go to the same university with your friends. Other than via social media, it’s not something you can pre-determine before starting. Unless of course we go back to the earlier point about what type of halls have what type of student and avoiding certain types

Good Learning support/student support departments at universities have resources set up for students with MH provisions. This can (should!) include counselling services & mentors, as well as liaison with the university medical services.

I’m curious at the suggestions that because many students only live on campus in the first year, MH support in the town is important. Surely a university student no matter where they live is entitled and encouraged to use the uni counselling & medical/GP services, with any extra specialist help referred to via them?

At least the DC you are referring to have had help.

This is a bitter & ignorant statement. And odd coming from someone who claims they find comparing different groups of students to be “divisive”.

I’m curious at the suggestions that because many students only live on campus in the first year, MH support in the town is important. Surely a university student no matter where they live is entitled and encouraged to use the uni counselling & medical/GP services, with any extra specialist help referred to via them?

I meant MH in town is equally important since they will move off campus into town after their first year. I don’t know what type or to what extent universities currently support students with MH problems, so I’m assuming support will end once they move off campus, but I see I may be wrong in thinking this which is a pleasant surprise.

Do they offer therapies like CBT (there’s high demand for this & appears to be the ‘gold standard’ treatment at the moment). It may be helpful if those who have been down this path already I.e dc with diagnosed MH problems at uni could list the type of MH support they are currently getting from their universities so that those of us on a similar journey can compare and perhaps plan better.

so I’m assuming support will end once they move off campus, but I see I may be wrong in thinking this which is a pleasant surprise.

With respect, I’m assuming you don’t expect your child’s university to also stop providing them access to lectures once they move off campus All university services are available to all applicable students no matter where they reside.

Yes some provide CBT. It depends on the place. I’ve already listed some of the provisions that can be provided. The wide-spread provision of CBT as a form of therapy is as much to do with cost as it’s effectiveness but that’s a big discussion to go into. Those with diagnosed conditions may well need higher tier therapeutic provisions. I myself had some psychodynamic therapy at a hospital which my university GP and counselling service arranged.

"... it may be hard for some posters to believe but often people with MH issues are extremely resilient and adaptive in many situations. Having had to deal with their own issues and a harsh world, they’re often far from being coddled, delicate flowers who crumble at the first sign of trouble."

I think this is a massive point.

I posted earlier in the thread about my d - she developed severe anorexia in her GCSE year, to the point of needing a year out of education after year 11, spent months in day treatment in London, followed by a relapse resulting in a 5 month inpatient admission at the other end of the country. I expressed concern about her a couple of months ago, in the middle of lockdown, unable to see family or her boyfriend and starting to lose weight, on a thread here and was met with 'maybe she shouldn't be at uni...' type comments.

She went from a BMI of under 13 and at severe medical risk (and quite heavily medicated), to getting back into school, straight A*'s at A level, through the med school application process, whilst holding down a catering job plus sports coaching plus getting off the meds through sixth form. She had therapy in spades during her treatment and is mentally in a good place, can recognise her triggers, manage her eating, and has developed a range of coping mechanisms for both her eating issues and general stress and anxiety. She has fought like a warrior. When I see/read stuff about young adults with mental health issues being snowflakes it makes me burn with anger, they develop and demonstrate such a range of qualities and have mental strength and determination in bucketloads. She's coping well with many aspects of med school than others that haven't had her experiences struggle with, if she wavers a bit due to the issues of lockdown etc - well I think most people do from time to time.

Sorry to go off topic....

With respect, I’m assuming you don’t expect your child’s university to also stop providing them access to lectures once they move off campus.

The expectation of a university to provide lectures and the expectation of a university to provide MH care to support SEN students and what level of care is available v needed aren’t remotely comparable and quite frankly a bizarre comparison. This is a very helpful thread for many of us who are unsure what lies ahead for our vulnerable dc, lets keep it that away and avoid unnecessary haughty remarks.

@shimy I’m sorry I was taking the piss. To use another comparator, access to the university sports hall & classes is for all students regardless of whether they’re on campus. In the same way, so is the Learning Support department, counselling services and medical centre.

I’m glad you find this thread helpful. My contributions are a small part as to why it is.

When young people have had help from the medical services they are clearly in a better position than those who have not or where it was so overloaded there were no appointments. If dc have accessed help then that’s great but it’s not the same for everyone. Ignorance is thinking that it is. After Grenfell the services for mental health in West London were on their knees with patients turned away. It’s not divisive to point that out. It’s the truth.

Hostess that is what we want to hear!! your DD sounds fantastic. I’m going to PM you with a story if that’s ok.

Shimy my apology still stands but on reflection, and being completely serious, the expectation on a university to provide MH & SEN services to certain students is comparable to the expectation on it to provide tuition. Universities have a statutory duty to provide the former to all applicable students. It is a legal requirement. If you need me to explain why I’d be happy to.

Percy I’m sorry ou haven’t been able to access services. I used the word ignorant because you don’t know whether the DC concerned got help on the NHS, that was an assumption. There’s a huge shortage for CAMHS services nationwide. Some parents here may have had to go private at great cost, as many are forced to do.

Juno do universities have their own GPs? Is there a centre at each uni that deals with all this type of stuff? There seems to be ‘disability services’, ‘student services’ and I’m not too sure if they’re umbrella services, or intertwined or totally separate. Or indeed differ at every uni? Thank you!

We started this year at a campus uni. Ds has A variety of MH issues. What I would advise would be:
Start the process of transition from CAMHS to Adult Health Services now and make sure you have an all party meeting before she turns 18. We have stayed with Adult MH in our home town.
Apply for DSA if relevant, this will give access to specialist tutors, equipment etc
Contact Student Services at the preferred uni and find out which GP is typically used. We registered before he got there to ensure no interruption to medication.
Fill in any forms that Student Services or the Disability Team wants before they get there, so they are aware.
Don't be afraid to call Student Support yourself. They may not be able to tell you what's going on, but if there is a MH crisis going on, they will listen to you and contact your child.

I've had a little too much experience for one term for my liking but it has worked so far and he's happy to go back in the next few weeks

@ComplexNeeds

Juno do universities have their own GPs? Is there a centre at each uni that deals with all this type of stuff? There seems to be ‘disability services’, ‘student services’ and I’m not too sure if they’re umbrella services, or intertwined or totally separate. Or indeed differ at every uni? Thank you!

Most universities have their own medical centres with GPs. (It might even be all but I don’t know that for a fact.) They therefore specialise in treating students. However students are allowed to register with a different GP in a local area.

Some of these university medical centres contain specialist mental health services/departments. Other universities have separate well-being and counselling services, eg Leeds:

students.leeds.ac.uk/info/100001/counselling_and_wellbeing/1081/university_mental_health_advisors

You’ll see Leeds have specialist mental health advisors that can help students obtain further (“higher tier”) MH help.

You’ll also see from that link that as well as Leeds Uni’s mental health team, there’s also MH help available from their disability team. The disability team (at some unis it’s called Learning Support ) provide strategy help and specialised mentoring for students whose MH conditions qualified as a disability, which will probably be lost pre-existing MH conditions.

So yes there may be a lot of going from service to service! The best step is to thoroughly search a uni’s website for each and all of these different types of services. HTH!

@JunoTurner of course it’s ok x

@PresentingPercy I’m guessing that’s aimed at least in part at me.... Yes we were lucky we could access care but it was really not straightforward. I was left at home with her, with just an appointment for weight once a week, no obs, no counselling, no nothing - until I snapped when she was totally yellow with blue extremities, no presence, heart rate around 40 in the middle of the day and I genuinely thought she was going to die. I had to make threats to get her level of care escalated. The day programme in london was amazing but she was discharged too soon, hence the relapse. The inpatient unit was full of temporary and inexperienced bank staff, they were medicated to the point of being able to get calories in then discharged whilst still underweight. The counselling was given when they were realistically too compromised and too medicated to properly process it. So anyone that holds the impression that my kid is a snowflake because she happened to get ill, and doesn’t have the strength or resilience to succeed in her chosen career is quite frankly talking talking out of their behind.

Now she’s at uni, her personal tutor is aware and she has been signposted to services if she needs to access them. During the time she was struggling a couple of months ago she phoned her GP in London and was basically told that unless she was repeatedly self harming or having suicidal thoughts, someone would phone her in about six weeks. Her family and flatmates but primarily boyfriend helped her through her blip.

Her view for EDs is that the counselling and therapy should start after weight restoration as that’s when the mental work really started - but there was nothing to be had at that point.

Sorry to go off at a tangent.

@ComplexNeeds

Juno do universities have their own GPs? Is there a centre at each uni that deals with all this type of stuff? There seems to be ‘disability services’, ‘student services’ and I’m not too sure if they’re umbrella services, or intertwined or totally separate. Or indeed differ at every uni? Thank you!

In my experience as a student at a uni that would have MN clutching their pearls in horror as it's an ex-poly... there's an on-campus GP surgery - but navigating the mental health support system takes a bit of focus and go-getting which you might now have in the grips of a MH crisis. I have MH problems which have gone spectacularly bad with the Covid situation - and I know who to contact if I need support now, but I know that because I've spent time chasing around departments and being signposted to the point where I have a contact name in the uni MH support service if I need it. I'm also very very lucky in that I have a really good tutor and a very small course cohort and department who, as a result of the cohort size, really notice if someone suddenly stops engaging in sessions etc. Much harder this year obviously.

We have a pathway we're meant to follow of a generic appointment and then being signposted on from that to appropriate services - I'll be honest, it doesn't work brilliantly, but it IS flagged up to all freshers at least. Tutors - vary in how good they are.

Disabled Students Allowance is something to consider as well - I get it for a combination of my mental health and also dyslexia and if I'd wanted it I could have had mental health mentoring added to my DSA support package of recommendations (I didn't want it though).

If I wasn't as pro-active as I am though (I'm driven because I need to keep going for my kids) - I wouldn't have found half the support I have done.

@onyourway

We started this year at a campus uni. Ds has A variety of MH issues. What I would advise would be: Start the process of transition from CAMHS to Adult Health Services now and make sure you have an all party meeting before she turns 18. We have stayed with Adult MH in our home town. Apply for DSA if relevant, this will give access to specialist tutors, equipment etc Contact Student Services at the preferred uni and find out which GP is typically used. We registered before he got there to ensure no interruption to medication. Fill in any forms that Student Services or the Disability Team wants before they get there, so they are aware. Don't be afraid to call Student Support yourself. They may not be able to tell you what's going on, but if there is a MH crisis going on, they will listen to you and contact your child.

I've had a little too much experience for one term for my liking but it has worked so far and he's happy to go back in the next few weeks

Very helpful information. A few questions:

You said you stayed with adult MH in your area but your dc registered with university GP? I didn’t think this was possible. Don’t you have to be in the same area for both services?

You advised starting the transition to adult services BEFORE they turn 18. Can you expatiate a bit on this?