good MH support at LSE, Kings etc?

[ComplexNeeds]

How do you find out about the support universities provide for DC who have existing mental health issues please? It’s really difficult to tell from their websites and tbh they could ‘say’ anything on a website. How do we really find out?

@NameV12345 thank you very much for this as we wouldn’t have thought about departmental and central support differing. People say contact the ‘university’ so it’s good to be specific. She’s very happy to let people know her difficulties upfront and ahead of time. I’m rather impressed that your dept meets with the student AND parents in summer. Given the lack of open days, DD will email and liaise that way, copying me in.
I agree about city v campus and think she’d suit a campus environment. She’s has applied to a mix and her favourite is city. Doubt she’ll budge on that but we’ll see. It’s offers and grade dependent anyway.

We have experience of this through my DS.

King's has terrible MH support and won't talk to parents either.

As others have said, if MH is a concern I would avoid London altogether. But definitely give King's a wide berth!

I agree with Name. There was a wonderful woman in DS’s department at LSE who did her best to engage students and keep an eye on them. Equally DD is spending the year at another London University. It’s really complicated with online learning and her peers scattered across the globe, but her Head of Department is super and very approachable and has responded quickly to a couple of problems that came up. Better than her experience at Bristol where it felt as if little could slice through labyrinthine bureaucracy to achieve a humane solution.

Very different student experience but some years ago my child on autistic spectrum got stellar support from Birkbeck. Mostly older students, mostly evening classes, mostly part-time. I would speculate that a high proportion of the students have additional needs of one kind or another.

@Needmoresleep I don’t want to our and ask if your DC had mental health issues. But there is a difference between keeping an eye on all students & sorting out problems and supporting those with existing mental health issues. In many cases the latter qualifies as a disability, not just students temporarily sad & struggling because they (justifiably) find online learning hard.

@NameV12345’s advice is indeed excellent and if I was the OP I’d pay particular attention to her advice that campus universities are, generally speaking, better for this.

Typo, that should be “I don’t want to pry”.

From my own experience (albeit postgrad), Kings was dreadful all round.

Juno,

There is a discussion to be had. I personally think that Bristol got it wrong by concentrating on centralised welfare and withdrawing first line support such as hall wardens. Only a student protest kept the post grad students, who get free/cheap accommodation in return for a providing basic support including hall entertainment. A further problem is that not every course offered personal tutors, so a student with problems could be very much on their own.

DD had a dreadful first year, though problems were physical not mental. It is hard for 18 year olds to navigate their way around health services, including missing referrals and so on. The PG in her hall was brilliant.

It depends perhaps whether MH issues are already recognised before someone starts University or whether something happens at University: drugs, bereavement or whatever. The person themselves may be the last to recognise the problem and family may not spot changes from a distance. Flatmates or hall neighbours equally may not be attuned to someone they barely know who is struggling to get out of bed, and even then may not know what to do.

FWIW I think the chances of someone within a department spotting that a student is missing lectures or is struggling with the course would have been higher at LSE than in Bristol. But that is just second hand observation. Central MH support in Bristol seemed good, but relied on self-referral. DDs SEN support has been a lot better in London, and the process for receiving that support a lot more efficient.

Generalisations are hard. I agree though that someone with a pre-existing MH condition needs to think carefully and that London may not be the right place.

It depends perhaps whether MH issues are already recognised before someone starts University or whether something happens at University

Yes @Needmoresleep it does depend which is why I wrote what I did to you. In this specific instance the OP has said that her DC has pre-existing MH conditions. That is the discussion being had here. The discussion you say has to be had isn’t really relevant to this.

The needs of students with MH conditions before they enter university is a situation that, to be handled properly, requires co-ordination & collaboration before a student commences university. This collaboration often ideally should require parental input and transfer of medication and/or therapeutic services.

In which case many apologies to OP. I held off posting because I was not able to answer the original post, but wanted to support allNameV12345's useful contribution. It has been DCs experience at two London Universities, that departments are pro-active.

As allNameV12345 suggests, some posts appear very negative. Universities vary, and London is not the easiest city to be a student, although very rewarding for some. I would agree that it is more of a case of looking at each University/department individually rather than seeing it just as a London/not London binary.

And again OP, sorry if I disrupted the thread.

@Needmoresleep you’re viewing Name’s post through your own filter. Yes you’ve found two London departments pro-active, but in situations where your DC did not have pre-existing mental health issues. It’s important to make that point because the needs are different.

I know you are keen for people to accept that London universities are brilliant because you and your DCs went/are there, but it’s important to have unbiased information here as it’s an important situation. No one is anti London, they’re pro support for a potentially vulnerable student.

Sorry.
Inevitably most posters on this thread and on MN more generally here will have their own experiences and their own biases.

Of course people will have their own experiences and biases. It doesn’t mean they all shoehorn in their own agendas though!

An important point you touched on OP is the transfer from CAMHS to adult mental health services. It’s widely known through studies that a lot of young adults are ‘dropped’ at this stage. It’s therefore even more important to ensure a university will be able to adequately support a students with existing MH issues as that student may no longer be getting the support they need from their local services.

As Bristol has been mentioned - my own anecdotal experience is they’re superbly supporting my godchild who started there this year, came with existing MH issues and severe dyslexia who was at a special school. My friend, the student’s mother, liaised with Bristol before her DC started. The SEND support has been brilliant. But that of course doesn’t mean it will be for all.

Thank you all for the useful discussion above. I do recognise that posters have their own experiences to draw upon and inevitable bias. As posters that’s invariably all we can offer. Our opinions. In the main mn is brilliant for this, as I’ve found on this thread. Thank you all.
DD applied to only one London Uni in the end and has been rejected. So my original post is somewhat irrelevant. However it has highlighted what she needs to do regarding her other choices. Of the 4 left, 3 are campuses and the 4th is Bristol. It’s good to hear that Bristol has supported your Godchild juno!
So, to summarise she needs to...
Ensure course has a personal tutor
Ensure there’s PG students support in halls
Liaise with course department re MH
Liaise with student services re MH
Are there other departments she needs to liaise with please?
Register with local GP ahead of start
Move to adult psych ahead of start
Again, huge thanks for all your help!!

I would also check on attendance policy.

A friend's child was determined to go to Bristol desire a Cambridge offer, as she was sick of studying and was attracted by the party reputation, and decided she did not want to be surrounded by "nerds". (If a potential student really needed a gap year, she was the one.) My friend was very aware of the problems DD had had in her first year in a party flat, but since her DD was likely to be one of the party girls....

She went and was absolutely happy, but roll on January she had failed her exams and had to resit her first year. Her tutor had no idea who she was as she had never attended anything. Yes she was on his list, but he assumed this was an admin error. Second time round and she is doing fine. This is not the case for some others. Members of one of DDs project groups finally went to the administration because they were worried about one student who never turned up. The University checked their records and, yes they were right. The system had not spotted it. (In fairness her course has tightened up since, presumably in response to this and other examples.) Indeed her party flat problems were centred around one student who stopped attending in October and had turned nocturnal, but who was not caught out until the exams at the end of the first year.

Bristol is a super University, but be careful. It is worth thinking hard about the accommodation and talking to accommodation services about options. (Another negative thing perhaps is that as part of their reforms they have centralised these - previously staff knew the flats and residents, and so were good at moving students to better options.) I would suggest Clifton or the City Centre. Stoke Bishop is isolated so you can't easily stay late in the library, go to the SU, or meet friends in Wetherspoons, if you have a deadline to meet or need to minimise the time spent in your flat.

She should think about where her sort of people go. What Universities did people in the year above her go. Where are her friends applying to. The best way to enjoy University is to find your tribe. (Which is precisely why DS was happy in London, yet thought one LSE friend would have been happier at Warwick, and indeed that one friend who was unhappy at Cambridge would have been better off in London.) And, whatever others say or do, attend. Staff are best placed to help if they know you, and it provides structure. And DD would add that it is really important to stay away from drugs.

I agree that lots of people say good things about Bristol's central support. (But would still argue that their SEND support has a long way to go.) The issue was more one of signposting, especially when the student themselves are unaware that they have a problem. Fellow students notice and worry. No hall wardens, no proactive security (unlike other Universities, students need to report noise and drug problems to security, which for the student potentially exacerbates problems. Security themselves seem to have no hearing and no sense of smell.) and no obvious communication channel on the academic side, can leave fellow students feeling both responsible but powerless.

One tip I picked up here, was to get students to share flat mates parent's phone numbers "in case of an emergency". If someone does not leave their room for a week, it at least gives others an option.

But again @Needmoresleep you’re shoehorning in your own not MH related experiences or anecdotes because you’re (still) bitter that your DD - who didn’t have MH problems - had a hard time being in “a party flat”, despite you saying now that your DD’s issues were physical.

There’s a difference between a child with existing MH issues and a “party girl”, and I think it’s insulting that you’re implicitly comparing.

One would really hope that the personal tutor of a student with SEND - and that includes MH problems - would be aware of who a student is before they start, regardless of whether the student then doesn’t go to lectures. They should be aware as that’s part of the university’s obligation to SEND students. Whether that particular student is a party girl (presumably there are “party boys” too?) is irrelevant to the provisions a SEND student is entitled to.

PG hall wardens would be useful to your own DD with the party flat problem. How much use they can be for a student with pre-existing mental health conditions is a different question. They may stop partying but can they stop the demons in a student’s head? For one thing, confidentiality means PG hall wardens may not know who has pre-existing MH or other type of hidden SEND conditions.

But again @Needmoresleep you’re shoehorning in your own not MH related experiences or anecdotes because you’re (still) bitter that your DD - who didn’t have MH problems - had a hard time being in “a party flat”, despite you saying now that your DD’s issues were physical.

There’s a difference between a child with existing MH issues and a “party girl”, and I think it’s insulting that you’re implicitly comparing.

One would really hope that the personal tutor of a student with SEND - and that includes MH problems - would be aware of who a student is before they start, regardless of whether the student then doesn’t go to lectures. They should be aware as that’s part of the university’s obligation to SEND students. Whether that particular student is a party girl (presumably there are “party boys” too?) is irrelevant to the provisions a SEND student is entitled to.

PG hall wardens would be useful to your own DD with the party flat problem. How much use they can be for a student with pre-existing mental health conditions is a different question. They may stop partying but can they stop the demons in a student’s head? For one thing, confidentiality means PG hall wardens may not know who has pre-existing MH or other type of hidden SEND conditions.

Apologies for double posting, it didn’t show that the first had posted properly.

Obviously not all student who don't attend, are party kids. There are a couple of sad examples of kids with MH problems who disappear from view. (The Bristol Tab did some good reporting a couple of years back.) The point was that it can be too easy to disappear from view, and that is something that a student with pre-existing MH conditions might take into account.

You also mention personal tutors. Some courses have personal tutors, but certainly not all. As you suggest a personal tutor would be useful in ensuring that there is a joined up approach to SEND support. DD's course does not offer them. Having a single point of contact whose role involved being aware of her issues and helping resolve problems, would have genuinely helped. (And helped ensure that good provision was in place for future SEND students.)

Again something for students with preexisting MH conditions to look at.

Again I would stress that this is one take, and am happy to accept that one experience is anecdote not evidence. But I hope it is helpful to OP. DD witnessed a few students unravel badly. She would have like to have been able to do more.

I mentioned personal tutors because you mentioned them in your anecdote; you just used the term ‘tutor’ but presumably that’s what you meant.

I agree it’s important to know whether the course offers personal tutors and that should maybe be a factor in choosing. But a child with MH conditions/SEND is probably entitled to a personal tutor type person even if their course doesn’t offer them. Which is why it’s imperative the OP speak to the uni’s Learning Support centres. Bristol may be able to offer a support system that works. Obviously it won’t have done this for your daughter’s friend or your daughter as they did not have pre-existing mental health conditions.

Thisisn’t just about noticing if a student fails to attend. It’s about ensuring that a child with pre-existing MH conditions feels supported, has the necessary extra reasonable adjustments and knowing who you turn to from the beginning. Students with MH conditions can still turn up to lectures despite suffering. MH issues can pertain to all parts of a student’s life, not just academic performance. So they may be doing fine academically but at the expense of their emotional and social health. Monitoring lack of attendance will not address those students.

Students with MH conditions can still turn up to lectures despite suffering. MH issues can pertain to all parts of a student’s life, not just academic performance. So they may be doing fine academically but at the expense of their emotional and social health. Monitoring lack of attendance will not address those students.
This is exactly what my concern would be. She’d attend lectures, tutorials etc even if her world is falling apart. That’s why I’d like her & I to get as much prep done as possible.

I think the notion that a single warden in the halls at Bristol noticed anything wrong is total bunkum. They were academics and just attended formal dinners. Most students barely knew who they were. They absolutely didn’t help students with MH problems. Hence a need for change. In fact I would not rely on post grad students being much use either. How are they qualified to help and would an undergrad know who they are? I would want to rely on a personal tutor and medical staff.

All universities have students who enjoy parties and will not have the same attitudes as other DC. I would talk to the University accommodations office and find out what has worked for similar students. They probably are prevented from sharing names but experiences of the halls should be shared. Is a big hall better, or a smaller one? Or even a university house?

I do agree that the student themselves needs to try and be aware when they need help. That’s the biggest battle I think. Not an elderly warden who no one ever sees and no one really knows.

OP, I get it, and I feel for you I know from experience how ‘proper’, pre-existing MH conditions can manifest, and how there’s such a variant between conditions and symptoms. Which is why I find it offensive that the talk became about drugs & “party kids”, which on its own is a reductive term.

And yes, of course elderly wardens or PG students aren’t, can’t and shouldn’t be a source of support for that demographic of students.

I think referrals to DC who are different to be divisive and lacking in understanding of the perspectives of others. You would not say that if you knew these dc had mental health problems but I guess some would see these “parry” dc as less deserving of help and are to be shunned.

party not parry!