Oxbridge Aspirants 2021 - New Thread (2)

[Baaaahhhhh]

Sorry posted last message on the last thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/higher_education/3757768-Oxbridge-Aspirants-Sep-2021

Here is the new one......

Thank you Mike and onthebench . Dc was quite excited by it ( it IS exciting isn’t it! ) . Now... just got to get the grades
Thanks also for link

SAQ question here for Cambridge.

There is a question in the education section asking ‘Have there been any difficulties with the teaching in any of your subjects at AS/A Level or equivalent (eg International Baccalaureate)?’

My feeling is this would be an appropriate place for DS to note that he had no online teaching during lockdown (homework was set but no teacher interaction was offered).

I realise that DS far from alone in this, but feel it’s worth mentioning given the likely disparities. I’d appreciate thoughts of others though...

Ten - yes, I would put it in there, definitely.

@goodbyestranger

This is turning into a ridiculous competition as to which poster with an Oxbridge applicant DC can claim to be the most truly disadvantaged or deprived.

Plenty of these kids just get on with it, despite not living next to the Natural History Museum or National Opera House, despite not having their personal statement scrutinised by a parent or commercial company, despite having separated parents or being chronically ill, or ill or blow par on the day of a test, or living in a toxic atmosphere of domestic violence. The list is endless. If they do get into Oxford or Cambridge they'll come across dozens of kids who haven't sought to put forward mitigating circumstances in situations where posters on MN would have it that there DC was massively disadvantaged. I've been constantly amazed at the sorts of things kids there have had to contend with. A lack of foreign holidays or passports or trips to the theatre doesn't begin to cut it.

Sheesh. I was posting in the context of POLAR data; nothing more. You have no idea of our circumstances. But hey, let the disadvantaged kids 'just get on with it'.

Thanks @quest1on

The vying on this thread for who has the Oxbridge applicant DC most deserving of mitigation is whipping around my head Brecon, I'm afraid.

I'm not concerned about individual stories (especially not those to do with lack of foreign holidays etc.). The issue is that there's a pervasive spirit of mean mindedness about the Polar and Acorn data, how it's 'not fair' etc. None of the examples given here sound more than fairly trivial in terms of disadvantage.

Wow. Caused a stir. It was only a passing suggestion. Just so you all know I have never rung, or emailed or been in to any school, with any issues with either of my DD's. They have always handled stuff themselves. Tbh, a couple of times I probably should have been more pro-active, but there you go. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Just to set the record straight.

I do however offer support and advice when asked.

Rant over. Sorry. Moving on.

Baaa - Thankyou for starting the thread and you have nothing to say sorry about

It’s a bit of an arms race sometimes. People are (I hope!) fine and dandy with genuine disadvantage being recognised, but when they see friends or neighbours - or even MNetters! - citing minor impediments as “points” then they think they have to join in and scrabble around in their lives to find something too.

The student room, incidentally, is rife with “is this a disadvantage?” hopeful queries.

Imo any mention of Covid on a personal statement will surely elicit groans. It will leave “passionate” in the dust !!

Just when I thought we were done with blimmin online forms .. we now have the SAQ headache .
There is not enough room to add all the A level topics you have studied.. what have other people’s dc done? I said to dc to just put the ones you would want to be asked about in interview but dc said that makes me a bad person . Any ideas?

I try to avoid TSR, it's way worse than MN 😁 That OxfordMum poster annoys me too, she's on there more than the students.

Again, apologies for last nights rant. Tired, emotional, and should know better than to go on social media at 11pm at night, way past my bedtime!

Oh, yes. That Oxford Mum. I think she means well but she’s elbowed out everyone else as she is so prolific. No one can get a word - or post, rather - in edgeways !

Baaaahhhhh it's only when real disadvantage gets elbowed out under a slew of petty pleas for mitigation that there's a problem. And it does seem to be a bit of an industry. But def no need for apologies!

I think That OxfordMum nipped over to MN a while back and got her fingers burned, then went back to TSR to cast doubt on my existence, or the existence of my DC. She's what we in the trade call a piece of work :)

I think someone who chose the moniker 'OxfordMum' probably has issues and I can imagine the existence of your family irked her greatly, goodbye.

I haven’t noticed any moaning on here - just people discussing what the various “quintile” categories are, etc. I’m sure it can be confusing and there are no doubt anomalies. I read it as people just chatting, that’s all.

Also, if parents have recently divorced over lockdown or something, then, call me old fashioned, but I do think that is a mitigating circumstance. It’s not appropriate to just say, “Oh shush, 1 in 3 are divorced these days...“ Would you say to someone who has experienced a bereavement, “Be off with you - death is very common?” Blimey.

@Johnathonripples DS having same issue. He’s asking his teachers for advice though not sure they’ve ever supported a Cambridge MML application before.

Did you realise that he can see rate Y12 and 13. Gives a bit more room?

*separate 🙄

quest1on it's not so much within the thread, the moaning about inequity, it's wider than that.

No I wouldn't consider parents getting divorced as any sort of mitigating circumstance, for university entrance purposes. It's far too common an occurrence and not always upsetting. A parental or sibling death yes but not a grandparental death, in ordinary circumstances. In my view mitigation should be used incredibly sparingly - that's the way we've always gone as a family anyhow - so that those with serious mitigating circumstances don't have their situation cheapened. I think there's a good deal of scepticism around the issue of mitigation now on the part of tutors, so I'd be wary of weak mitigation anyhow - it could well be a double edged sword, in that Oxford/ Cambridge might wonder well if that's put forward as mitigation when we've come across dozens of students in far worse situations objectively, then how will this student fare if s/he gets an offer? Endless requests for essay extensions? A drop out risk? Just immensely hard work for teaching staff? Worth considering whether it could be an own goal.

I did think one of my DDs should let unis know that she's been deaf since birth and has never had (or asked for) any adjustments in exams, but she said no - she wanted a 'proper' offer!

To be fair though, goodbye, you were the one the other day posting about “inequality” and saying that SPS has 20-odd Oxbridge advisors, whereas yours went to the “local” school / grammar or whatever the case may be. There are no medals for that either you know. Also, press articles about these advisors at SPS are a) untrue and b) only wind people up. I think it’s probably best to let individual students and families decide for themselves what are mitigating circumstances because you can’t really make sweeping statements about issues that are highly personal.

Not correct at all quest1on. I was staggered that St Paul's had twenty one advisors compared to two at my own DCs' school but absolutely nowhere did I complain. I have nothing to complain about! The two advisors at our school work flat out but do an excellent job; the same Ho6 has overseen all my DCs' applications and I've nothing but praise for him, and for how hard he works. My point, if you re-read, is that twenty one is vastly excessive, not that my own DC have been in any way compromised by not having twenty one advisors at their disposal.

(If you can point me to anywhere where I said anything about my own DC being disadvantaged by the lack of a ridiculous number of advisors, be my guest).

As far as 'letting individual students and families decide for themselves what are mitigating circumstances', well obviously they can chuck in any amount of stuff, but the unis will decided what is and what isn't valid. I doubt tutors will take a vastly more lenient approach than I do, to be honest, given some of the comments I've heard first and second hand. 'Mitigate' at your peril at the more academically pressured unis.

My DC all to the local school, not the 'local' school, just to be clear.

Of course there are inequalities, and the demographics-based metrics are blunt and imperfect instruments.

I'm pretty sure the oxbridge admissions tutors are well aware of this. Their system allows them to make better judgements about individuals than other unis which are much more automated and impersonal.

And one of the functions of these threads is, hopefully, in a small way to at least help a bit with information and dispelling myths.

But don’t most kids go to their local schools, whether this be state, independent, grammar or faith. Some people may choose to commute miles for whatever reason or send their DC boarding, but that’s up to them.

All I’m saying is, sweeping statements may not be helpful here eg. the loss of a grandparent is not a mitigating circumstance. Surely it depends on the relationship with the student - some grandparents may live at home with the student, for instance. As for domestic violence.., No student should have to be reporting this on a form. But if they have disclosed this to a school, or are known about to social services, it’s the job of the school to include this on the form because it’s not only a mitigating circumstance, it’s potentially life-threatening.

Yes most DC do go to a local school, rather than a 'local' school quest1on. The fact that ours is a grammar doesn't warrant inverted commas.

You have a touching faith about how far schools are aware of domestic violence, especially in middle class families quest1on. And in fact even where a school is aware, it's not clear that it's the school's duty to 'pass it on' on the grounds that it's life threatening - that has nothing to do with the unis.