Oxbridge Aspirants 2021 - New Thread (2)

[Baaaahhhhh]

Sorry posted last message on the last thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/higher_education/3757768-Oxbridge-Aspirants-Sep-2021

Here is the new one......

@IrmaFayLear

If that was directed at me.........Ouch !

I was merely illustrating that the postcode based software that supposedly aids decision making aimed at levelling the playing field, as far as accessing educational opportunities is concerned, is actually clumsy at best and potentially flawed such that it genuinely risks enhancing inequity in some circumstances plus there's no appeal for a "downgrade" as far as DD's school could ascertain.

It's entirely possible (given this summers debacle over algorithm/CAGs) that unverified data like that is potentially being used behind the scenes.

If DD gets an interview (and if she believed it went ok) but no offer, will we ever know whether it was interview performance or perceived widening of access box ticking that put her below the line for an offer by comparison with other applicants in the current year.

Sounds tricky Milly. I haven’t had any of mine sent home (yet) for self-isolation, but I think it’s more a case of no tests being available, as opposed to nobody in the schools having had Covid.

Also, just to mention another thing that may possibly be relevant to anyone with DC applying for History, English, Geography etc or any course that needs to submit an essay in the next few weeks.., Do check with the college if there are any guidelines around what can be submitted as they might only accept work that has been completed in school and “teacher marked” - ie not supercurricular essays. I don’t know about Oxford, but the specifications vary a fair bit between the colleges at Cambridge.

Normally students would have NEAs they could submit because these would have been completed last term and “teacher marked,” but as these have been pushed back to this term for all subjects, it’s not the case this year. Also, teachers may be iffy about “teacher marking” EPQs as they are classed as “live assessment,” so do check! Not every school has set exams in a while either, so students may not have those transcripts.

DS’ college require two pieces of work so he’s submitting his EPQ which the teacher has finally agreed to put some comments on. The second piece does not need to be school marked so he’s submitting something he wrote outside school.

SATSmadness I suspect judging how an interview went by the interviewee's own assessment of it is even more flawed than the software that you're complaining about.

On my own DCs' statistics, six out of seven who got offers thought they'd covered themselves in ignominy (to a greater or lesser extent), with just one (DS2) asessing himself as having made good eye contact, great body language and generally having nailed it.

Oh, gosh, no, SATSmadness, I apologise if it came across that way!

I was just pointing out that it's madness when we as parents are regretting having been to university because it comes back and bites us on the bum when we want our dcs to go!

I agree that the polar thing is a very blunt tool. I live in a high polar place (just had a look) but no one is affluent . Round here is solid, lower-middle class blah. Very few free school meals, but also no enrichment, no culture, no museums, no "inspirational speakers" heading out here, and the dcs' school firmly states that X University (former HE place) is absolutely on a par with anywhere, including Oxbridge. Heard this from the HE person's mouth... I was goggle eyed.

quest1on I am actually going to ring admissions I think with regards to essays. DD was looking the other day at potential candidates. Some are not applicable ie: wrong type of question. Lots from the beginning of last year are just not good enough, and those from the end of last year were all submitted and marked on-line ie: no copy. You can't print them out with the comments, as the comments are off the actual written work. We have that particular problem, but I am sure lots of candidates would potentially not have done ANY essays last term, so what on earth do they do?

I wonder how they assess students who have won bursary places at schools which are frequently in the top 10 or whatever nationally. However, they may well go home to some of the most deprived areas of London, or have arrived not so long ago as refugees etc. Or if they have siblings in prison? Surely they would take family background info account over and above the school stats?

They deal with that one. The thinking is that if you have won a bursary, then you have also won a very good education so you cannot "double dip" at the deprivation pot.

Baaa - yes definitely worth ringing as they may be a bit flexi this year, you never know.

“you cannot "double dip" at the deprivation pot.”

That’s interesting.

I suppose they look at applications holistically, so if you lack one element - eg the essay - but ace everything else then that is absorbed into the mix.

Thanks @IrmaFayLear

It's sometimes hard to tell with the written word, emoticons excepted.

Things at home do affect kids. Dh and I are now separated. An unpleasant encounter over this very early in Y12 upset DD on a morning of a day when she had a subject test scheduled for first lesson. She did very badly by her usual standards and the subject teacher started predicting grade B for her despite every subsequent test result being a high A.

In the end sense prevailed and the predicted grade at the end of Y12 was an A but it took the whole school year for the teacher to put it up to an A even bearing in mind DD's grade 9 at GCSE. It's now predicted to be A* but it does show how home circumstances can affect the performance even on just one day. Starting to plan now with extenuating circumstances seems a little off, who knows what things will look like next year, even factoring in putting back the exams by 3 weeks.

Something else to share, I heard last night at parents evening. In the light of the extension to exams and effective changed term dates, they are anticipating coursework deadlines will also be extended.

@IrmaFayLear

Oh, gosh, no, SATSmadness, I apologise if it came across that way!

I was just pointing out that it's madness when we as parents are regretting having been to university because it comes back and bites us on the bum when we want our dcs to go!

I agree that the polar thing is a very blunt tool. I live in a high polar place (just had a look) but no one is affluent . Round here is solid, lower-middle class blah. Very few free school meals, but also no enrichment, no culture, no museums, no "inspirational speakers" heading out here, and the dcs' school firmly states that X University (former HE place) is absolutely on a par with anywhere, including Oxbridge. Heard this from the HE person's mouth... I was goggle eyed.

It does seem a very broad brush. We live in an area of high rural deprivation in a small market town, so it averages us out as being distinctly middling as far as social factors are concerned. It's hardly urban squalor, but the fact is that our income precludes a great deal in terms of wider cultural experience and travel. My DC don't even have a passport and have never had a proper holiday. I can count with one hand the kids on this estate who've been to university, and one of them happens to be mine. I don't think my Oxford-aspiring child has been disadvantaged academically by this, but socially, culturally, even on the point where he doesn't have the kind of parents who check over his PS, who ensure his life 'experience' is PS-friendly in the first place, who will happily ring up admissions departments..etc, etc...you bet he's disadvantaged.

I don't think my Oxford-aspiring child has been disadvantaged academically by this, but socially, culturally, even on the point where he doesn't have the kind of parents who check over his PS, who ensure his life 'experience' is PS-friendly in the first place, who will happily ring up admissions departments..etc, etc...you bet he's disadvantaged.

Fascinatingly, I mentioned FSM and pupil premium previously, there are competitions as to which school has done the best things with their pupil premium money. The prizes? All enrichment, so some national History organisation will come to your school and tell you about how to include your local area in your teaching, or 30 children will spend an afternoon with the London Philharmonic or a professional choreographer. There was an article recently about how MFL is unfair to disadvantaged pupils who cannot talk about "their summer holiday" when they live in a tower block and have never left their town.

I grew up poor but did go to uni, Dh grew up middle class and also went to uni. From an early age I have pushed education as a means to get to where you want to go. I wanted more for myself and worked from 13. I think schools should talk about jobs more, salaries, local housing stock prices and push children to be the best they can be.

@TheYellowOfTheEgg we always knew Ds would do well but when he started sixth form he was chosen as part of Cambridge HE+ who identify "competitive entry" students in state sixth forms and basically help them to understand what Cambridge are looking for. That combined with MN meant we knew about supercurriculars, masterclasses and summer schools. It also meant when he did his personal statement he followed the advice on Unifrog only to then have an email from HE+ explaining how Cambridge want your PS to look. So he changed it to fit their criteria.

@Millylovespuddles I have had it confirmed today that there is no provision if your child either has covid or has symptoms of covid or has been sent home to self isolate because of covid. My son has been sent home to self isolate. He would return to sixth form after half term but I am going to keep him home until the exam. He has full access to the class via zoom.

Cambridge have assured the sixth form that no student will be disadvantaged if they have not sat the test due to covid. I find that very hard to believe, imagine if they have 1200 children who have sat the BMAT and 300 who haven't. Surely those 300 go to the bottom of the pile.

How do you find out polar4 quintile?
Dc seemed to get some good initial help from school with the UCAS but not so much during later stages (school under a lot of pressure with covid positives atm) and we just had to muddle through. By Monday (when it was submitted) I was glad to see the blimmin back of it!
DC has heard back from them all by email and has received first offer from York today.

Not to try to deflect from your valid points but one specific quibble ' parents...who will happily ring up admissions departments'

Fgs don't be parents who do that! I doubt they're generally likely to be overly impressed by helicopter parents, or students without the nous to phone or email themselves. However, it undoubtedly helps to have a parent or some other person who points out to their shy D.C. that the admissions tutors email addresses are on the uni websites to be used by them.

@Johnathonripples Congratulations on the York offer!!

@ErrolTheDragon

Not to try to deflect from your valid points but one specific quibble ' parents...who will happily ring up admissions departments'

Fgs don't be parents who do that! I doubt they're generally likely to be overly impressed by helicopter parents, or students without the nous to phone or email themselves. However, it undoubtedly helps to have a parent or some other person who points out to their shy D.C. that the admissions tutors email addresses are on the uni websites to be used by them.

I'm inclined to agree, but the helicoptering in places on this thread is whipping around my head and blinding me to reason. As it is, I'm barely tolerated at parents evenings, so I doubt I'd be allowed within a mile of his UCAS application, even if he hadn't submitted it. I've already been proved wrong once on cautioning him not to expect any early offers, for a start.

@Johnathonripples congratulations to your son!

Also polar postcode link

www.officeforstudents.org.uk/data-and-analysis/young-participation-by-area/search-by-postcode/

Pop your postcode in and press enter, it will show it underneath but then click on the view detailed results to see where that map covers.

Realised I just assumed you had a son from "Dc" I am about to eat my dinner so I blame low blood sugar

DS’s application submitted on Monday and all 5 have acknowledged receipt.
Including Durham and St. Andrews

This is turning into a ridiculous competition as to which poster with an Oxbridge applicant DC can claim to be the most truly disadvantaged or deprived.

Plenty of these kids just get on with it, despite not living next to the Natural History Museum or National Opera House, despite not having their personal statement scrutinised by a parent or commercial company, despite having separated parents or being chronically ill, or ill or blow par on the day of a test, or living in a toxic atmosphere of domestic violence. The list is endless. If they do get into Oxford or Cambridge they'll come across dozens of kids who haven't sought to put forward mitigating circumstances in situations where posters on MN would have it that there DC was massively disadvantaged. I've been constantly amazed at the sorts of things kids there have had to contend with. A lack of foreign holidays or passports or trips to the theatre doesn't begin to cut it.

I mean obviously separated parents is peanuts these days. It's almost as standard to have separated parents as not.

In the sense of mitigation I mean.

*their