Oxbridge 2020 (thread 10) - the path to the first term (just one slight hurdle to clear first)

[DadDadDad]

For better or worse, there is a bit of a bond of mutual experience between parents whose DC go through the Oxbridge application process. Thank you for your companionship so far - and thank you to others who started the earlier threads in this series.

This thread should take us to the start of the first term (whatever form that takes). All welcome here, but for many of us hopefully this will be the place for practical support as we help prepare these peculiar* young adults to spread their wings.

But the first item on the agenda appears to be the small matter of judgement...

*or for those who chose Oxford, very peculiar.

Waving to @Sunndowne from the 2018 cohort .

Maths and sciences particularly affected at DS's school where capable students have fallen foul of the ranking process. Anecdotally, less popular subjects such as classical civilisation and greek don't appear to have been moderated (CAGS, grades and mock results were made available to every student on results day at DS's school).

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/live:bbcradiofourfm

Worcester College professor talking about their decision to honour predicted grades on the Today programme this morning (about 7.36) - my DS just sent me the link. He's very proud to be a (state school) Worcester graduate

Good luck and good wishes to all your DCs - I know how very hard they must have worked.

The first question I shall be asking the student helpers from my college, who seek the financial support of alumni via the annual college fund-raising telethon, will be whether the college honoured all their undergraduate offers. No exams were sat - the further information that has been generated by the algorithm does not, in my opinion, trump the rigorous scrutiny to which individual candidates were subjected - a process that relies on contextualised information in an attempt to 'level up', and requires candidates from high-performing and academically selective schools to meet a higher standard in terms of GCSE grades, admissions tests results and interview scores. Anyone offered a place this year should be backed by the colleges; they should trust their own procedures. Needless to say, if all such offers were not honoured (albeit that some may have to be deferred), then my money will be going to Worcester, as I have told my college admissions tutor. I will not stand by and see the ladder pulled from underneath these students, and many of us alumns feel the same.

Well said @Oxfordsnotbrogues.

I bought DS a college-specific undergraduate gown from Ryder & Amies. I realise he's unlikely to have an opportunity to wear it this term (or maybe even this academic year) but hopefully he'll be able to wear it eventually.

We are guessing the slits in the arms are so the ends of the sleeves don't dip into your meal during formals, but we could be completely wrong about this; happy to be corrected.

Does anyone know why the label is upside-down? Is it one of those historical tradition things (like May Week being in June)?

Spot on Oxfordnotbrougues

I think it morally wrong for Oxbridge to reject on grades this year as they really have been shown not to reflect candidates ability.

Thecandidayes have shown their potential through interview and specific exams. I presume both predicted grades and CAGs would be very high so it would be up to the candidate to lose as it were Given the loss was completely out of the candidates control and the result of a statistical calculation how can it be right to reject them?

Also the downgrades seem to be affecting schools in more socially deprived areas so how will rejection on grades fit with both universities desire for greater inclusivity ?

I do feel so gutted for those who should have made their offers and haven't, and I do hope that the appeals process is prompt and fair. I'm aware that DD has been both fortunate and privileged in getting a place this year, even if she wants to defer it!

With regard to places for 2020, there is the simple fact that colleges don't have the accommodation to take everyone they gave offers to even at the best of times, and with social distancing it is even worse. When I collected DS's remaining stuff from his Cambridge college one of the staff told me that they were trying to work out how to fit everyone in for the following year, given that they couldn't use shared sets anymore. Other universities can tell freshers they will just have to be in private housing but Oxbridge doesn't work that way.

And pushing those offer-holders to 2021 puts pressure on next year's cohort who will be competing for a smaller number of places. There seems to be no decision that will work for everyone.

One college - ironically I think it may have been Worcester (or possibly Exeter, can't remember) recently put undergrads up in privately-rented accomodation for the best part of Michaelmas because their building work over-ran. It is a horrible situation for everyone I agree, with any number of practical, ethical and logistical challenges of which I am doubtless unaware: nonetheless, the prospect of these kids losing their place because of baked-in inequalities amid circumstances utterly beyond their control is so repugnant to everything that Oxford ought to stand for that it absolutely compels a response. These colleges are supposed to be full of the brightest minds of their generation, with huge endowments at their disposal. It ought not be beyond their combined wit and the considerable resources at their disposal to respond imaginatively in a time of crisis.

@Ironoaks. Yes the slits are for eating. I think the label is upside down because there is a sort of loop below it so if you hang it up by that, the back kind of flops down and it’s the right way up. But I may be wrong and it’s some weird tradition! Someone will correct me.

@chitchattery
I have looked and there is a loop; if you hang the gown up by the loop, the label is the right way up. Thank you for solving the mystery; I can now stop wondering about it and go to sleep.

It is bad enough feeling not getting into Oxbridge anyway (failed Cambridge interview many years ago and not selected from the pool) but to know that your rejection was determined by an algorithm and the grade weighted by the results of previous cohorts must be especially galling.

Please colleges find a bit more space for applicants somehow it cant be absolutely impossible.

Why can't they form a household in shared sets?

@mids2019 I agree they should do everything they can and some indications are coming out that they will. However, certainly Cambridge (I don’t know about Oxford) has very little private rented accommodation and there is a real physical limit on the numbers they can take and still deliver the collegiate experience. They are already suggesting that some of the offers to those that have missed their grades will be for 2021 which obviously has problems in and of itself. It is a very difficult situation all round and I do hope they find solutions that work for as many students as possible.

There was a word salad of a document up on the Ofqal website about 20 mins ago, dated 15th August, setting out what constituted a 'valid mock' that could form the basis of an appeal. Seemed to imply that in absence of same, some form of 'teacher assessment 'would do. However, CAGs would be still be in the picture because if lower than the mock or the 'teacher assessment', then the CAG would stand. It's been taken down now, so I can't post a link to it. I think Dom's had a word as it undermined the 'triple lock'. Really hope that whatever is eventually proposed helps those dc who missed out.

I agree chitchattery there are real logistical challenges in terms of numbers but there just seems a moral imperative to not reject on grades that most agree have real questions on their legitimacy..

Deferral is one option but as you say has it's own challenges. However could the universities prepare in some way for an expanded 2021 intake given these strange times.

It is just heartbreaking hearing stories of those that didn't make offers and their educational dreams potentially shattered.

Oxford has put out a University statement on 2020 admissions. It's on the website if anyone is interested. Sorry can't link on this tablet.

Here's that statement from Oxford
www.ox.ac.uk/news/2020-08-15-university-statement-2020-admissions

@Oxfordsnotbrogues

There was a word salad of a document up on the Ofqal website about 20 mins ago, dated 15th August, setting out what constituted a 'valid mock' that could form the basis of an appeal. Seemed to imply that in absence of same, some form of 'teacher assessment 'would do. However, CAGs would be still be in the picture because if lower than the mock or the 'teacher assessment', then the CAG would stand. It's been taken down now, so I can't post a link to it. I think Dom's had a word as it undermined the 'triple lock'. Really hope that whatever is eventually proposed helps those dc who missed out.

Hi Oxfordsnotbrogues, the reason you can no longer view that OFQAL document is because it has been suspended - their carefully thought out 8 point Mock Criteria plan has been withdrawn - back to the drawing board I suppose. No matter that they are toying with young people's futures and putting them on hold. You really could not make this stuff up. The lot of them should be sacked.

The situation is utterly utterly crap now. Totally broken.

I am glad to read that Oxford statement. Cambridge have a bit more of a challenge, but I hope they can do something. I was on Twitter last night reading heartbreaking stories of some BAME candidates who narrowly missed their C offers and were rejected. That surprised me, because I'd have thought that colleges would have been very happy to have found them and therefore very reluctant to let them know. But there is a capacity issue as others have said (although maybe not insurmountable). DS has finally joined social media groups and said that there was chat about this problem with all agreeing that their fellow offer holders deserved their places. I am full of sympathy for offer holders (and their parents) in this terrible situation.

On other subjects, @goodbyestranger I am so sorry about the France quarantine situation. To have a long-planned family reunion/holiday cancelled is so sad. We are finally out of quarantine ourselves and DS and I will be celebrating by climbing a Munro today. Better go and get ready.

So Oxford are admitting over 3400 students, when they expected 3287 to achieve their offers, so they will be packing them in this year (metaphorically with social distancing).

This is a no-win situation for everyone - and not the fault of universities, schools or pupils. We're hearing of more friends' DC holding offers at Oxbridge who didn't make their grades and I can only imagine their disappointment.

A friend of a friend works in a Cambridge college, and has been replying to a 'let all offer-holders in' post on social media. Here's the gist of their points (not direct quotations):

In Cambridge we have not enough rooms for the freshers as it is, though we might just fit them in. If we'd known earlier in the year that A-level results would be in such disarray that we would need to disregard them completely, we could have made plans. What about those whose predictions, mocks and moderated grades were all lower than their offer? Some offers are made to people who unlikely to make them, because we want them to prove us wrong and it would be unkind to let them in.

I would expect Oxford and Cambridge to do all they can to admit those who missed their offer, but what I think that should mean (if the unis have the resources) is contacting schools and asking to see the evidence on which they based their CAGs so they can review it in detail (assuming the CAGs meet the offer).

"Let them all in" is a good slogan but too blunt to be a practical solution.

That statement seemed a bit clinical after my editing! They also said that even in normal times they feel terrible when someone with difficult personal circumstances who had a lower offer in order to compensate doesn't make it, but that's multiplied many times this year.