Durham v Exeter v St Andrew’s Unis - which would you recommend for a student from London?

[zaeem1]

Hello - would anyone have any advice regarding the above unis please? DS applying to LSE and Cambridge (loves the town), but obviously there are no guarantees at either of these. I know people obviously rave about the three unis above, It’s difficult to gauge the atmosphere at a uni though when there’s nobody there.

St A’s is sooo far - so not sure about that one. Probably you would make friends easily there, but it could all get a bit claustrophobic maybe? Plus not sure there’s any need to spend 4 years getting a degree, when you could do it in 3. A little worried about the cold too and the fact he would need to fly sometimes. There seem lots of traditions there and lots of waltzing around in red gowns, which could be fun, but also, is it a little OTT?

Durham - looks like a nice town, but could it get claustrophobic. Is it very “rah?” Sorry to put it like that, but hopefully you might know what I mean?

Exeter - we have visited this campus a while ago, but not on a tour. Town was ok - would it get boring after three years though? Also, is it full of what he would call “Jack Wills” types?”

Again, apologies for any ridiculous stereotyping here, but we are genuinely trying to weigh up if any of these are worth applying to. Any experiences welcome!

I went to a Bailey college at Durham, from a comprehensive elsewhere in the north east. I wasn’t the only one and certainly didn’t feel out of place. I had a very happy four years there and we stayed in Durham afterwards - met my partner there, as 75% of Durham graduates do apparently. The college system really is the ‘Durham difference’ as their brochures proclaim. I wouldn’t have wanted to be on a campus.

Mines at Durham and loves it . Her offer last summer was for 2 A’s ( although she sat three A levels last year she already had an A* in Maths from the previous year - I was surprised by her offer as I was expecting them to want high grades all at one sitting ) .

Friends ds has chosen Cardiff over Exeter as his insurance for geography (first choice Durham)

These are currently the top 3 choices for my ds based on looking at league tables and reading the online prospectuses. He is possibly the least rah person on earth and as we live in an ex mining town with high levels of deprivation and material and cultural poverty I don’t even think he knows what rah is. Is he in for a rude awakening if he gets in? St As is his fave but I’m put off by the cost of accommodation and I’m worried it’d be hard to find work with it being so tiny. He’d probably have to commute from Dundee if he went there.

I would worry about students getting work anywhere right now! Unemployment is expected to be massive after furloughs stop. I really wouldn’t base choice on that. I would base it on employment prospects afterwards. He will presumably receive a contextual offer from everywhere but I’d check that too.

There is way to much emphasis on MN put into avoiding a certain tiny group of people who are different. Would anyone think it ok if other students said they wished to avoid kids from mining villages? Or maybe didn’t want to mix with dc from the centre of Leicester? It’s good when dc don’t have preconceptions about others. Take them as you find them. They might even be decent hardworking students!

Meeting different people should be exciting, especially for young people just leaving home. I’m always surprised at the comments about “yahs” etc, it just perpetuates division in society or perhaps it’s a product of it?

I know people at Durham who love it. Exeter is lovely. Never been to St Andrews.

The best advice is to visit all of the places and see what feels right. What one person loves, another would hate. I actually would prefer a small, campus type uni ( and went to one), compared to a large city uni.

I strongly believe that, as far as possible, university should be a golden opportunity to meet a variety of people. That might be people who are from a very different background to you. They might be Jewish, poor, rich, Buddhist, quiet, noisy, over 30, black, from Africa or the USA. Does any of this matter? On numerous threads we are only ever seeing dc and posters who admit openly they don’t want to mix with privately educated pupils who are then described as “rah”. That’s equivalent to “chav” in many ways but because it’s about richer dc it somehow doesn’t matter that it’s a slur and rude when the prospective student hasn’t even talked to them - even less the parent.

At nearly every university (bar RAM) privately educated dc are in the minority. Many of these students are perfectly nice people. It really should be the least of anyone’s worries that they won’t cope with meeting someone they don’t have much in common with. They are a tiny minority as are many other categories of student as mentioned above. Students might even find they have a lot in common - the subject they love. If this really is the case, Oxbridge will surely fail in its quest for greater diversity.

I agree. My son's Bristol hall had a lot of ex boarding school students in it. That was no big problem. Different people are interesting and they have friends of all kinds.One difference for them was moving from an area of London where most people are not white suddenly for the first time in their lives living in a part of the country where most people are white - suddenly not being a minority. All the mixing of all kinds of people is what students learn from - realising there will always be people who have a lot more or a lot less money than you do, who hold different views (although I accept even in the 1980s it was not popular for me to be a member of the conservatives but even they were just about able to speak even if eggs were thrown by some who then and now like to censor freedom of speech).

I went to Exeter and loved it.

There is certainly a big ‘rah’ crowd but you learn quickly how to identify them and how to find regular people.

Do you identify practicing Christians at Exeter and decide you want regular people (code for white majority) and not them? (Add in any minority you want and see how awful it looks to avoid anyone!)

@My0My

Do you identify practicing Christians at Exeter and decide you want regular people (code for white majority) and not them? (Add in any minority you want and see how awful it looks to avoid anyone!)

My experience was that most crowds of people were pretty mixed and I absolutely would not avoid someone just because they were privately educated or for any other characteristic (beside toxic opinions). My own dp was privately educated. However, big groups of ‘Rahs’ who only hung out together and wore all Jack Wills ensembles, I quickly learned I did not have much in common with and I knew which clubs and night out they favoured and tended to avoid them. Likewise I wouldn’t avoid someone because they were a Christian but I wouldn’t attend the Christian union either!

Sorry, I should say, I do realise it’s ridiculous to make generalisations about people and it’s wrong to do so. To be perfectly honest, DS could be perceived as a bit “posh” by many I’m sure and he is in an independent school in London anyway. But when I say “rah” I’m not talking about money. That’s irrelevant. I just mean the kind of behaviour that’s all about downing pints and rugby and that kind of culture. Nothing wrong with that, but it’s just not DS’ kind of scene really - that’s all. His friends are Middle Eastern / Asian background, as is he and I guess you go notice the difference in demographic somewhere like LSE, compared to Durham where it’s very striking how nearly everyone on the webpages looks white British. Again, nothing wrong with that obviously because we are in Britain after all (obviously), but it’s just about “best fit” for him personally. He can get on with anyone and he does, but I wouldn’t have sent him to a school like Eton for instance, or that kind of very British country public school - not because I’m against that type of ethos, but just because, given the choice, his personality is such that he’d be happier elsewhere. So no judgement intended here, it’s more about the right fit for him as an individual.

Do you actually think there are Jack Wills wearing students now? Hasn’t that ship sailed? “Rah” is always about money or wannabes! Rugby players wouldn’t see themselves as anything but rugby players and all that involves on and off the pitch. A friend of ours was football captain at Eton. So what boxes would he tick or should someone like that be avoided at university?

DS is starting at St A in September from a very diverse inner city comprehensive school. He visited twice. We stayed 2 nights for open day and he went back for an interview (medicine). He loved it every time and is really excited to be going there, having turned down Sheffield which he thought was one of his top choices. He is very much not rah or yah, although he is pretty relaxed about all that - where we live the Y12/Y13 student population mixes socially outside school a lot and because people move to/from private schools in Y12 they discover for themselves that most people are nice, and you will have more in common with some than others, but where you went to school is not as important as the music you listen to.

@zaeem1 it feels like a mini cambridge as it is a town dominated by its university, with everything close together and has a sense of history. I think you can expect a lot of weather, but DS likes rain and cold walks on the beach. Quite a few courses have the option for English students to start in Y2 to make it a 3 year degree as Scottish students are a year younger and Scottish Y1 overlaps with A levels, but maybe that is only Sciences.

@StampMc the accommodation is a worry when you firm it, but so far DCs of people on Mumsnet seem to have been getting their first choices. The best value accommodation at St A is Andrew Melville which is £6,150 including 3 meals a day Monday to Friday and breakfast and lunch at weekends. Everything is within walking distance, so there is very little essential expenditure on top of that. Means tested bursaries are available and they said at the open day that some of them remain unallocated most years as there are not enough applicants.

My - it’s not about avoiding anyone, Of course you take people for who they are, but there’s nothing wrong thinking about where you might be a bit happier and more inspired. Obviously the whole thing is unpredictable and there will be all types everywhere. This goes without saying.

We walked through the campus at Exeter and there were a few groups of what must have been students lying around on the grass and it was noticeable they were basically all wearing Jack Wills hoodies! Teens notice these things. Of course we realise it’s totally unfair to make sweeping assumptions based on this, but that’s why I’m asking. When he was walking round Exeter, he did notice there are few Asian / black people - which is obviously to be expected relative to London and not in any way a criticism of the place because it is what it is. But I wondered if the student population (when they’re there) make any difference in this regard. Similarly, I would like to think the reality at Durham, for instance, is more diverse than it appears to be on their website.

Monkey - thanks for the info. I hadn’t realised that.

zaeem1, I get what you mean. DC were at academic London private schools, and although white Caucasian, their school friends came from all sorts of backgrounds. DS was in his element at LSE where his friendship group was a complete mix of British born kids from English state schools, more recent East European migrants, ethnic Asians (South, East and SE) from Britain, Asians, third countries or via British boarding schools, as well as a sprinkling of Aussies, North and South Americans, Australians, Africans, Germans, Italians and Scandinavians. The French oddly, were the ones who seemed to keep most to themselves.

DD is at Bristol. She had wanted something that was "London, but not London". Her first year was quite problematic. She was surprised how white and relatively mono-cultural Bristol was. I think the issue is not really the "rah" factor but how sheltered many of the other students seemed to be. Then away from home or boarding school for the first time, they arrived determined to sample "the University experience", though perhaps without the experience of mixing with, and being sensitive to those from other backgrounds. DD was just not interested in clubbing, and had been used to a culture of work hard/play hard and took a while to find her people. Oddly her people have turned out to be outdoorsy types from rural areas, often from north of Watford, or Wales and N.Ireland. Two friends who went to Exeter, similarly, kept well away from the private school sets, and found their people through shared interests.

People on MN can be very rude. There was a poster with a similar posting style to MyOMy who effectively suggested my DD was a Billy-no-mates because she did not share the clubbing and drugging interests of her first year flatmates. (The peer pressure was immense, and others succumbed, but I suspect London kids have earlier exposure to a party lifestyle so have more confidence in not going along with it.)

We know a couple of former London private school pupils who found the "rah" element at Bristol and Exeter so difficult that they chose to transfer/restart in London. And indeed DD is taking a year out of her medical degree to intercalate in London. Since making that decision she has decided she loves the west country and is now likely to apply for training positions outside, but within striking distance, of London. She loves Bristol but not the University.

So of all your choices, I would pick Durham. It is the first choice of many from cities in the North, so will have a greater natural diversity. But with Geography courses can vary a lot. The LSE one is very urban, so perfect if he wants to head towards a career in urban regeneration or town planning, but not so good if his primary interest is geology. They have some impressive names on the staff. LSE suits those who are quite course orientated. DS was very happy there (econometrics) and his friends were based on a shared interests, whether course or societies. LSE is a big change from school, bigger than Oxbridge in many ways, so it did not matter that he has only moved about a mile up the road. LSE is just too diverse for there to be an obvious private/public school divide. Everyone comes from somewhere and you just get on with it. That said it is a slight pity that DS has not lived anywhere in the UK other than London.

DS2 is going into third year at St Andrews and enjoying it, i was a lttle bit worried about him fitting in, especially as he was in one of the old "posh" catered halls but he found a very diverse group of pals through clubs and societies, which seems to be how it works in St As. He also had a job in his hall kitchen, there are quite a few jobs ops provided by the uni, my tip be proactive and ask , don't wait for them to be advertised.
Proper rahs exist but they are easy to avoid, just don't join the polo club or the Conservative society etc.
Anecdotally, there is an uneven spread of sexes, classes and nationalities across different schools so that is a factor.

What is wrong with Jack Willis hoodies? DS hasn’t got one and I thought might pick a couple up in the sales but this thread is telling me something I’ve clearly missed (yes, I know this isn’t the crux of the thread:)

Well I don't think MyOMy is being rude. I just thinks that the poster is calling out chippiness and classism where they see it. It does seem to be acceptable on MN to want to avoid certain groups but if I said that I wanted my DCs to avoid unis that attract poorer people in case they mixed with the "wrong" people or picked up a northern accent there would be an outcry.

I have in recent years been to open days at Oxford, Bristol, Exeter, Durham, Bath and Nottingham. Every single one was like being in a Boden advert. And it wasn't just a huge white majority, it was a white middle class majority suitably attired and arriving in their german SUV/estate. I can't believe that anyone attending an open day can have falled to pick up on this so I am a little bit cynical about the claims of people seeking out friendships amongst the less "rah" but still far too privileged students. They are still very much mixing with the "right" people. I also attended Manchester, Leeds and Warwick open days which were far more mixed and IMO would attract anyone wanting to escape living in a Boden advert.

N.B. When I say Boden it includes: Joules, White Stuff, Sea Salt and any other brand you would expect to find with a shop on Salcombe High st.

Hmm! I think a few untruths have been posted on here. It is true that students may well find other students are not to their taste after getting to know them but never assume drug taking and clubbing is the sole preserve of these dreadful “rah” students. Most students find the opposite. It’s the ordinary ones off the leash for the first time or who already do drugs at home. Some even take part time jobs to earn the money for this. Of course plenty of students don’t join in. However being the odd one out means you must change halls of rooms but I think few get into this dire situation which is out of their control. Friends have to be sought elsewhere quite obviously because the people who take the drugs are not your friends and never will be. They are a minority though. But it’s wrong to suggest they are purely from one sector of society!

Why cannot students wear Jack Wills if they want? What about leather hot pants and fishnets?

What is wrong with Jack Wills Hoodies

Don't worry. In London, at least, Jack Wills is seriously passe, and the shop in the Kings Road closed years ago. It depends on DC. Mine were anti-brand and logo, and so were happy with Uniqlo or sports clothing. Brands that rank are stuff like Obey, though without cool DC I can't be sure what is the latest.

Boden never seemed to rank with DC or their friends (we did the Abercrombie and Fitch aged 11-13 and then onto Superdry at 14/15). But agree that the Salcombe High Street brands are pretty evident elsewhere.

DD and her friends teased one boy who questioned the fact that Durham did not have a Waitrose. (Perhaps it does now.) It became the Waitrose index. Warwick does not have one on or near campus, Bristol has a huge one just round the corner from the University. But clothing brands at open days might be a more accurate measure.

Overheard in Waitrose was followed by thousands of Bristol students back in the day. Taking a gentle look at the utterings of some students.

No idea if Durham has a Waitrose but after I dropped mine off last Autumn I did spot a Waitrose delivery van at the traffic lights near the library so unless it was a parent doing a drop off in their work vehicle I guess delivery is possible .

By Boden type clothing I was referring to the mothers not the DCs who obviously haven't worn Boden since they were old enough to refuse to wear spots/stripes etc. It's a Devon look.

Jack Wills is done, I doubt that they will get through this recession. Ralphie's Polo is now very popular with boys (the quarter zip is the new JW's hoodie) and Urban for girls. There is nothing wrong with a JW hoodie things just change.

@cologne4711

Durham and St Andrews are tiny towns that are really just the universities (and in the case of St Andrews, a golf course).

I'd choose Exeter of those three, definitely. Durham as second choice (but I'd rather go to Newcastle, Leeds or York if I were going to that part of the country).

If I were going to Scotland I'd go to Stirling, Edinburgh or Glasgow.

But it depends what you want. Some people go to St Andrews and rave about it. I don't get the attraction at all.

Durham is not a 'tiny town' - it's a city, with a whacking great cathedral in the middle of it.

College allocation is random, so there is a little less of a divide between Hill and Bailey colleges: they try to have a balance. The newer colleges, with self catering, do tend to attract more working class candidates - often because they are cheaper.