Durham v Exeter v St Andrew’s Unis - which would you recommend for a student from London?

[zaeem1]

Hello - would anyone have any advice regarding the above unis please? DS applying to LSE and Cambridge (loves the town), but obviously there are no guarantees at either of these. I know people obviously rave about the three unis above, It’s difficult to gauge the atmosphere at a uni though when there’s nobody there.

St A’s is sooo far - so not sure about that one. Probably you would make friends easily there, but it could all get a bit claustrophobic maybe? Plus not sure there’s any need to spend 4 years getting a degree, when you could do it in 3. A little worried about the cold too and the fact he would need to fly sometimes. There seem lots of traditions there and lots of waltzing around in red gowns, which could be fun, but also, is it a little OTT?

Durham - looks like a nice town, but could it get claustrophobic. Is it very “rah?” Sorry to put it like that, but hopefully you might know what I mean?

Exeter - we have visited this campus a while ago, but not on a tour. Town was ok - would it get boring after three years though? Also, is it full of what he would call “Jack Wills” types?”

Again, apologies for any ridiculous stereotyping here, but we are genuinely trying to weigh up if any of these are worth applying to. Any experiences welcome!

I would say Durham too.
Its better ranked than the other 3 and on the East Coast line with direct links to Newcastle and London.

I went to St A's and live in the SE. Had a fantastic time!

A tad hypocritical not to want to run the risk that if circumstances force you to go to your insurance choice, most of the others there will be there for that same reason? Perhaps. Or perhaps a desire to choose somewhere a little more 'diverse' - if only in that one respect and probably based on a not totally representative sample. Perhaps one thinks that if one has to put up with disappointment oneself, it would actually be sort of uplifting to choose as 'second best' somewhere where more of one's fellow students are happy to be at their first choice? But anyway, weird as it may seem, it is, when it comes to university applications, a free country. One can feel how one feels about all kinds of things and make decisions based on whatever one deems most important. Or least unimportant. Whichever.

I can't help thinking that the Durham admissions comment, if genuinely not leavened by something along the lines of, Of course, we would really like you to want us as your first choice, but..., would rather put me off, though, especially if I were not also applying to Oxbridge.

What is it that makes you think these are fabulous Unis?

Look at the courses and the course content of a wider range of Unis rather than picking the socially favoured alternatives for m/c Oxbridge wannabes! All your suggestions are rah / yah.

Which doesn’t matter if the course is right and the city and style of Uni appeal. Campus v town / city v small town / geography and transport routes.

It matters if employment for grads is going to difficult in the future. The top universities are worth looking at for this reason alone.

@My0My

So a DD didn’t like Durham because everyone she met was using it as a back up for Oxbridge - as she herself was! You couldn’t make it up could you!? So why is this so awful? Surely being at a university among very talented people is a bonus? They might not be at Oxbridge but they will still be great people to know and study with. It’s also pretty poor to label fellow students as not being worthy of your friendship. What a peculiar stance to take. She didn’t t even like people in the exact image of herself!

That was my daughter. She applied to five universities. One was Oxford. The other four were all possible options in case she didn't get in.

Durham was the only one of the others that she visited that gave the impression of being full of people that really wanted to be at Oxford and Cambridge. She hadn't realised it would be like that originally and it really put her off. She didn't get that impression about Bristol, Birmingham, Manchester, York or Nottingham all of which I imagine also have a reasonably high proportion of students who also applied to Oxbridge, especially Bristol.

She wanted to be somewhere where people were happy with their course, not somewhere where a high proportion of her fellow students wanted to be somewhere else. In her view the Birmingham course for her subject was far better than the Durham one and was much more likely to have been a first choice for most students who had applied, even if it wasn't her own personal first choice.

My younger daughter is at Exeter and I don't think any of her friends applied to Oxbridge so it doesn't seem to her to be a place full of people who would have preferred to be somewhere else.

Oxbridge reject who went to Durham here! I had a great time. The hill and bailey colleges are very different in character - if you want to avoid rahs, definitely go for the hill. I went to a bailey college and was practically the only person there from a comprehensive. Durham itself is very small, but Newcastle is 15 mins on the train if you fancy a larger range of shops/nightlife.

Should have added that it wouldn't have occurred to my daughter to 'dislike' people in the same position as herself or to think that they would be unworthy of her friendship. But she didn't think she'd like to be around people who were keen on the the course they were doing.

She thought that the Birmingham course (and the Manchester one for that matter) was better than the one at Durham. She applied to Durham because of its general reputation, but once she had to whittle down her five offers to two, she was more interested in making sure that the course and place was right for her.

I remember her telling me that her head was telling her to make Durham her reserve option but her heart told her Birmingham. She went with her heart. I'm not saying her decision or her feelings were logical but she was only 17 and that's how she felt.

Well parents are there to guide and advise 17 year olds when they make bizarre statements and decisions based on meeting a tiny number of students on an open day. The idea that all the Durham students stint the next 3 years wanting to be somewhere else is ridiculous. Most people deal with the cards they a dealt. For Geography, over 80% of applicants to Oxford don’t get in. Presumably similar at Cambridge. Does anyone really think all these students carry a torch for a university they didn’t get years afterwards? Of course they will enjoy Durham! It is no less a university because some use it as insurance for Oxbridge. Plenty use Bristol too. And Exeter! As if Durham has a monopoly on thousands of disappointed students! She was wrong to think this and that other students were so stupid as to choose Durham when it didn’t suit them.

Thankyou so much for all the views.

He’s going to give Cambridge a go - the course there seems a little less rigid than Oxford, ie more chance to specialise in human geography.

The LSE course would be brilliant for him. As would UCL where they offer a 4-year option with a year abroad (but it’s A*AA for this programme). In fact, when he was doing his EPQ, he realised the majority of his sources were LSE / UCL professors and researchers.

I wax a little worried if he stayed in London, he might not get the full “going away” experience, so this is why we were trying to look at the campus options. I had high hopes for Exeter because it’s a nice part of the country etc, but it’s so tricky to experience any atmosphere when the campus is dead.

The Bristol course requires you to be more evenly split between human and physical and it seems somehow more science, statistics-orientated (looking at the options anyway). He’s more into the overlap between geography / politics / economics.

Bath don’t do geography, nor Warwick which is a shame. I don’t know if he needs to go as far as Scotland, particularly given the extra year. The cost and time of travel etc all mounts up.

Re- Durham yes, he’s definitely heard its reputation as being an “Oxbridge reject” uni but I don’t think this is fair to Durham because there is no shame in being an Oxbridge “reject” anyway - especially as there are more of them than those accepted And they all have to go somewhere! The whole system is so arbitrary anyway.

The thing is, for his course, Durham ask the same grades as Cambridge anyway AAA and I’ve heard they’re not flexible at all - so not sure how it can be a “back up.” I’d heard Exeter) which also asks AAA for the international programme) may sometimes be more flexible, especially if there’s a relevant EPQ at A*? Maybe, maybe not?

Anyway, we’ll look at York and Southampton, I think. Thanks again.

The "socially favoured" comment above is fascinating. All I want is for teenagers to made informed choices. Some whose parents never went to university have no idea that some universities will take you with CCC grades and others want AAB or higher and once people have informaion and consider which will let them get to where tey want to be - eg my son a delivery driver, my daughters London lawyers can make an informed choice.

It is not really about social class. It is about where those who have the highest grades go from any kind of school and where you have that concentration of those with the high grades etc.

My son who just did the Bristol BSc geog seems to have been able to pick a lot of modules which suit him even things relating to philosophy and economics although he certainly has done a fair bit of maths/science side too but nothing too taxing.

(His dissertation was about "habit" - very very interesting - why we do things etc )

Bristol might be a good bet. Lovely city, not so far away and perhaps slightly less rah!

How certain is he of likely grades, all those require very high grades. It's recommended they choose a spread of likely offers because they won't have mock exam marks even at application time. Also how likely to want to come home for weekends,

DD has just finished 4 years at Exeter. We live in a small town and she has loved living there but she definitely feels she has outgrown the place after 4 years.

She's starting a phd soon and wasnt interested in staying in Exeter any longer. She was offered a position in Durham and turned it down as when she went to visit she felt the area would actually be a step backwards in terms of city life as it seemed even smaller/quieter than Exeter.

I think the reason he didn’t feel the Bristol course was going to be the “best fit” for him personally (although obviously it’s a great uni and they may also now make a reduced offer for relevant EPQs too) is because they have a list of “specified subjects“ and if you’ve studied two or more of these at A-level, they may also give you a reduced offer in this basis as well. The “specified subjects” are things like Marine Biology, Geology, Biology, Chemistry, Maths, Computing, Graphic Design, this kind of thing. This gives the impression of a more science-orientated course.

In contrast, LSE state that they prefer economics, politics, history, anthropology and languages. They are keen for you to maintain a language module alongside most of their courses. I think UCL are the same.

Cambridge have no preference on A-level subjects - or if they do, this is not stated.

DS is doing geography, economics and a modern language, plus an EPQ on a topic which spans geography, economics and politics. He is predicted 2 x A and one A and A in the EPQ. His GCSEs were nine “9” grades and an “8”, plus a distinction in a politics-related course run by his school. Having said this, we know plenty of people with higher predicted grades who have been turned down from the unis he’s applying to, so are taking nothing for granted.

None of them: all small places with reputation for being for posh people!

St Andrews will be cold and depressing for many months of the year.

Bristol still has a very high number of privately educated undergrads. 34%. Cambridge is 36%, Exeter 34%, Durham 38%. LSE 31%. UCL 30%. So rah rah rah! Whatever this means! They are all pretty similar! Perhaps just stop labelling people because nearly everywhere you’ve mentioned, apart from Southampton, is in the top 20 for privately educated students. I would avoid Cambridge based on your anti private views. More than anywhere else you are looking at!

I loved St As (there is no apostrophe). There was very little 'poncing around in red gowns', but if you don't want a uni with history, perhaps your ds could try a new uni?

@MarchingFrogs

A tad hypocritical not to want to run the risk that if circumstances force you to go to your insurance choice, most of the others there will be there for that same reason? Perhaps. Or perhaps a desire to choose somewhere a little more 'diverse' - if only in that one respect and probably based on a not totally representative sample. Perhaps one thinks that if one has to put up with disappointment oneself, it would actually be sort of uplifting to choose as 'second best' somewhere where more of one's fellow students are happy to be at their first choice? But anyway, weird as it may seem, it is, when it comes to university applications, a free country. One can feel how one feels about all kinds of things and make decisions based on whatever one deems most important. Or least unimportant. Whichever.

I can't help thinking that the Durham admissions comment, if genuinely not leavened by something along the lines of, Of course, we would really like you to want us as your first choice, but..., would rather put me off, though, especially if I were not also applying to Oxbridge.

That’s exactly how I felt when I read that comment as DS might be considering it as a first choice and he certainly won’t be applying to Oxbridge.

@My0My I deliberately didn't advise my daughter how to choose between Durham and Birmingham because it had to be her choice. We discussed it and I was happy that she decided to go for what she thought was the better course.

It is possible that I was more relaxed about it than I might have been because by the time she had to make the decision she already had her Oxford offer. I hadn't been at all confident that she would get an offer, but once she had it I was reasonably sure that she would get the grades required (it was under the old system where her AS results counted towards the final mark).

I would never suggest that Durham is anything other than an excellent university. And neither would I suggest that it is never a first choice for students. My children had lots of school friends who went there and for many it was their first choice.

My first post acknowledged that there will be many universities with students who applied to get into Oxbridge but didn't get in. I know young people currently at York, Nottingham, Birmingham, Cardiff and Manchester in that position (as well as Durham). But Durham does seem to have a higher proportion. That's perhaps not surprising give that they are also after the brightest students.

I'm certainly not suggesting that those who don't get into Oxbridge spend their entire student lives pining away and wishing that they were elsewhere. However, I do suspect that some students choose Durham because of its name and reputation when actually a course at a different university might suit them better. Exactly the same will be true of Oxford and Cambridge of course!

I don’t agree and I don’t believe students go to universities they don’t like just because of name. Drop out rates at Durham are pretty low I think so I guess most students are happy.

I think it is the role of parents to challenge the misplaced views of 17 year olds. It’s somewhat obtuse to think you don’t want to be with students at Durham who are, in effect, just like you. Possible rejects!

Perhaps I should clarify the admissions comment... it was along the lines of we like Durham to be your first choice but, if you are also applying to Oxbridge, please don't feel that we look on that as a negative, in fact we see it as a positive (as I mentioned) and that they're not "sniffy" about it.

I'm sure that lots of Durham applicants have it as their first choice and wouldn't read too much into the admissions department taking a pragmatic view on students also applying to Oxbridge.

Durham, I’m sure, are well aware Oxbridge cannot mop up every bright dc! Of course they want these types of student! Why wouldn’t they? I remember on an offer day, Manchester wanted DD and said two A levels would be fine (we don’t care about your third A level result - just give us a ring) if she didn’t get into Oxford. And this was years ago!

Durham ask the same grades as Cambridge anyway AAA and I’ve heard they’re not flexible at all*

On the off-chance that the relevant posters on TSR weren't just making things up to get their 15 minutes of fame (personally, I felt no reason to doubt them, but I'm sure others will express alternative views on the subject), last year, Durham were not only sending out some offers for presumably massively undersubscribed courses almost completely unrelated to those for which people had applied ( this was one of the more interesting ones www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showpost.php?p=82012868&postcount=2194 ), but made an eventual offer of BBB to one person for Geography iirc. So a bit bendier than they would like to admit, perhaps?