Are Firsts the new 2:1?

[Cranmer]

Over the last 2 years we have had 6 nieces/nephews/God children and family friends graduating. Without exception, everyone of them has received a first. The courses range from nursing, graphic design to engineering and geography. The highest A level grade any of them achieved was a B and they all went to ex-poly type universities.

When I went to university back in 1994, there was 200 on my course and not a single First awarded. Are students just more able? Are 2:1s seen as good degrees still? Why are so many Firsts awarded now?

I will be asking my academic tutor what needs to be done to get a first but guidance so far has been pretty low

If a student asks me what they have to do to "get a First" I ask them why they need a First.

You're putting the cart before the horse. You do the work, to learn, to demonstrate your learning - not to get a First. Learning is the aim of education - the marks are secondary.

If the main criterion you are given for achieving a 1st class standard is "original thinking" then that's what you clearly need help for, and what you need to ask your tutor about.

The 68 marks are telling you something - that your work is excellent, but that it lacks something needed to be at the highest level of achievement: so focus on 'original thinking' - not the mark.

It's original thinking that will take you further in your career & life. Who cares what classification you achieved in your career - believe me, very few people actually care.

Well Xenia: thirds are virtually never awarded now. Look at the stats!

It’s also true that when you get the job, your degree classification is secondary. A 2:1 from some universities will still take you further than a first from another in the same subject!

5% of students graduated in 18/19 with a Third.

Not very many awarded then.

I've got 2 degrees, 20 years apart

The first one I got a 2:2, I did sod all work for it and lived the typical student lifestyle as did most of my course mates

The second one I got a first -and I worked bloody hard for it, as did the other 6 people out of 80 that also got firsts

Please feel free to check my maths but I make that just over 21,000 Third class degrees.

The point being made though is that even 20 years ago loads of work was probably still a 2:1. Work and degree classification do not correlate. It’s how the degree is marked and what is counted and what is ignored. Maturity and degree classification might be linked?! But some people used to swagger through degrees and get a first! Others worked like stink for a 2:2!

Dazed, I did two subjects, one of which psychology. It's a BSc because of the stats and the science involved in the research. People do look down on psych a bit but I promise you they never did a degree in it. A first class psych degree is a huge achievement so well done xx

Oh Catandthefiddle it is SO lovely to read that. To see you achieved a first is the most amazing feeling and then you read that well, it's so dumbed down now don't be too proud of yourself.

Thank you for your words!

I'm having a really good muse about posts here. Did I work hard? Yes. I didn't ask for a single extension and I was never late with an assignment. But did I live and breathe it? No, because I've also got a family. Did I attend almost every lecture, workshop and seminar? Yes, because that's the bloody point of uni.

I got some shockingly bad grades but I also got some very high one and wrote a good dissertation.

Balanced out my average over level 5 and 6 was over 70%.

I certainly didn't coast every single module with amazing grades. Not a single one was handed to me on a silver platter.

And a famous neuroscientist in the field wants me to do a PhD under his supervision. So you don't have to set the world alight with every single module. You can still do well though.

Absolutely @bottleofbeer

I'm quite a successful professor ( in the humanities) with a series of research grants, books & prizes. I got a 2, i in my principal degree. I worked hard, and I was interested in everything and eager & keen to learn. A first would have been nice, but it wasn't the be all & end all - what I learnt and how I learned to think were what got me my success - and my deep pleasure & enjoyment in the actual work.

I agree with the last 2 posts - my daughter recently got a first. Due to the 'no detriment' policy, she knew she would get a first regardless of her final project as her grade point average was at a first before lock down. But she did not let up on her final project - she had finish to it at home, so I knew how hard she worked. And she got a fantastic mark for it and was incredibly proud of that because the project meant a lot to her. So it was not about getting a first, it was about doing the best work she could in an area she had chosen to focus on because she felt passionate about it. The first was a by product of her hard work and endeavour, not the point of it.

I was a lazy party animal when I was a student and got a Desmond .

The first was a by product of her hard work and endeavour, not the point of it.

Yess! I love this sort of story. Congratulations to your daughter.

@CatandtheFiddle Thank you, I am very proud of her (and in awe of her dedication & focus, she didn't get it from me )

Catandthefiddle I did a humanities subject as well as psychology; criminology. I totally understand if you can't say what your discipline is. A prof! Wow!

I absolutely LOVE sociology. This is so outing but I've been volunteering at Ashworth which I love and am going onto a neuroscience MSc.

To read a professor say we earned our degrees is brilliant so thank you! Ps, are you a mad prof? 😁

They fascinate me, do you know of Francis McGlone?

I got a first from Cambridge but worked my butt off for it

Do I agree
Way more firsts now than say 10-15 years ago

Not happy with this as I believe it in some ways makes a mockery of it all ??!!

Just to add when I did get a first it was 1/10 of the year group who also did not 1/3

1/3? Really? Out of my cohort I know of two other firsts.

But a lot more people attend university now.

I absolutely promise you that higher grades were not handed out like sweeties. This year we finished a degree with closed universities.

But hey, you got it from Cambridge which is amazing so well done. I don't begrudge you your highest honours.

I was one of two students who got firsts in a cohort of 130 in 2000. I was so proud, it felt like such an achievement as I worked evenings and weekends to support myself alongside a very full weekly schedule of lectures. I had 24 taught hours per week, and often think that this would have constituted excellent value for money, had I been required to pay fees back then. I've a picture of myself, grinning from ear to ear, posing next to my name and grade on the wall of the foyer, I can't imagine that still happens.

Of course it doesn't still happen - this years cohort didn't even get a graduation ceremony, let alone any other recognition. My daughter received her degree certificate in the post. She still grinned from ear to ear.

What are posters trying to prove on this thread - that oldies' 2.1s are equivalent to firsts? It's a fairly silly thread tbh. Yes, there's been grade inflation but since you can't get better than a first, a fair wodge of kids who get firsts these days would have also got firsts in the olden days (of the eighties and nineties).

TheNavigator some unis have deferred proper graduation ceremonies and will be doing them in 2021. My youngest DS has also just got a first (like a number of his siblings before him), without needing a leg up from the no detriment policy and gets a proper ceremony next April.

My youngest DD found out today she’s got a First. We are absolutely thrilled and because she wrote her dissertation at home during lockdown, plus the other course work I am under no illusion that this was not some sort of fluke or grade inflation. She just worked fucking hard, and is also very bright.
All 3 daughters have now all been awarded Firsts, from RG unis, all 3 got only As and A* at GCSEs and A level. Maybe it’s something in the water 😂
Shameless Proud Brag!

@CatandtheFiddle

I will be asking my academic tutor what needs to be done to get a first but guidance so far has been pretty low

If a student asks me what they have to do to "get a First" I ask them why they need a First.

You're putting the cart before the horse. You do the work, to learn, to demonstrate your learning - not to get a First. Learning is the aim of education - the marks are secondary.

If the main criterion you are given for achieving a 1st class standard is "original thinking" then that's what you clearly need help for, and what you need to ask your tutor about.

The 68 marks are telling you something - that your work is excellent, but that it lacks something needed to be at the highest level of achievement: so focus on 'original thinking' - not the mark.

It's original thinking that will take you further in your career & life. Who cares what classification you achieved in your career - believe me, very few people actually care.

Totally agree.

Personally I was comfortable with my intellect, my degree result, and I know I couldn’t have worked harder than the 15/16 hours I put in daily, when I wasn’t working in my part time job. If I had done an “easier” degree than a law degree from a RG university I might well have got a first but so what.

My son is only 14 but he’s already saying he’s determined to get a first and beat what I got. That’s all good, I’ll be over the moon if he does.

I graduated in 1990. Only 1 person out of 40 in my year got a first. So 2.5%.