Medicine 2021 - part 2

[Millylovespuddles]

Following on from the first thread:
DD now has UKAT booked for mid-August. She couldn’t get a driving theory test booked until after the UKAT date, but will keep an eye out for cancellations.
Now, her big dilemma is Oxbridge it not....

@Babbas

Thanks ganfyd. He's posted on tsr and also shortlisted Lincoln, hull/ York, Liverpool and Sunderland. I've advised him to sit the bmat and look at some bmat unis too. I wonder if there cut offs for unis will be different this year due to the challenges this years candidates are facing?

Also look at Plymouth, Keele, SGUL, UEA, Aston and ARU. Liverpool have changed their shortlisting process this year to make them very GCSE heavy, so needs a lot of 8s and 9s for here, I suspect. If has these then there may be other possibilities

Ds scored 2600 and band 3 for SJ because he ran out of time. He's absolutely gutted and I'm really sad he feels disappointed. Its not an easy exam and he tried his best. He had another shaky start online so missed a few minutes faffing.

After his disaster on Sat ucat rearranged his exam for today. I just want to put my arms around him and tell him it'll be ok but of course that's the last thing he wants. He's looking to see if he meets the cut off for any uni. With so many places already taken for next year ds thinks the cut offs will be higher than previous years.

Ganfyd- your info is great thanks.

@Powergower lots of choices as GANFYD says. If fab GCSEs then Cardiff an option. And 2600 is a great score. Look at the the new medical schools like Sunderland and Anglia Ruskin. Kent Uni new this year too I think. It's not over by any means. Lots don't look at SJT unless it's a 4. Virtual hugs and fresh look tomorrow.

Mums - thank you, needed that hug. Really difficult few days at work, coupled with ucat worries means it's been a really challenging few days. Ds is feeling much better and getting ready to have a long ps4 gaming session. So much support on this thread, really means a lot.

@Powergower PS4 solves a lot of teenage problems. I'll send 🍷 too. It's a long bumpy road and the strategic applying is important. But he'll get there 🤞

Liverpool have changed their entry scoring for this year focusing heavily on gcse grades. I wonder if this is due to the debacle this year which resulted in med schools having to take on so many offer holders they weren't expecting to get grades.

Next year is going to be an absolute nightmare, so many places already earmarked for this year's deferrals, year 12s with no real opportunity to cram in work experience, unis being much stricter with with entry scoring, and missed learning for year 12/13. Unis will also be very very wary of over offering, historically they have been able to over offer and then reconcile numbers once drop outs/grade drops/ applicant moves take place.

What an absolute shit show for 2021 applicants.

@Babbas Liverpool changed their entry scoring well before they knew that they had to take on so many offer holders (ie before the Government's U turn). They told us they were doing it at the virtual open day that DS attended in June/July.
But they did suggest it had to do with the corona virus - on the grounds that the GCSEs were sat by this year's Year 12s under normal conditions, while the UCAT etc was not going to be.
On that basis, I would expect that for next year's entry, ie mostly for students now going into Year 12, who have GCSE grades based on CAGs etc, they will reverse themselves and not place much weight on GCSEs. That is what I am anticipating.

The key question for 2021 applicates is: when they say they are increasing the caps and funding for medical school places, is that just for this year, or is it also for next and possibly the year after. If they agree to do it for next year and the year after as well, then they ought to be able to accommodate the excess from this year, plus the same number of places for next, and our students will not be disadvantaged in that way (although they are due to having months out of school during the most critical school year). That might lead to more pressure on the F1 places in five/six years' time, but assuming our candidates are capable of outperforming some of those who got in with CAGs that would never have translated to such good A level grades, that should not so much be a problem for them.
Indeed having places like Liverpool put additional weight on GCSEs should help winnow out any of the just finished Year 13s who have suddenly decided to apply for medicine given their A Level grades, as they will have sat GCSEs in 2018, and these should be normal. They will also have to suddenly sit the UCAT (they don't have long) for a place like Liverpool, and probably won't have done the practice that is recommended. The BMAT is in November, so perhaps they have time to prepare for that, but to be honest, no matter how poor the schooling was for our just finishing Year 12s, most have been trying to keep working (with more or less support from their schools) whereas very few Year 13s will have done any work at all once it became clear exams were cancelled, so our Year 12s might even be better prepared for the BMAT than those Year 13s.
But it seems to me that the key thing, to make it fair for our Year 12s, is that they keep the caps on medical places lifted, so that it applies not just to 2020 entry, but to 2021 entry, and maybe even to 2022 entry, so medical schools can encourage deferment without worrying about the 2022 cohort. And then there has to be some level of leniency regarding A level grades for those doing exams in 2021, because of the vast disparity between those schools that have managed to keep teaching year 12s during lockdown, and those that have not (and that can be from any sector, it is not necessarily true that any given independent school was better than any given state school). So in many ways emphasising GCSE grades for 2021 applicants may be the fairest option.

If (and of course this is a big if), the government agrees to keep the caps lifted for the next couple of years as well, then the greatest unfairness will be located in those universities (such as Exeter) that prioritise achieved A level grades over potential ones (and in those who waive GCSE requirements if A levels have been achieved). That will give those who have finished Year 13 who are suddenly deciding to apply to medicine based on their CAG achieved grades priority over the regular 2021 applicants. I would hope that those universities that have in the past had this policy (which I can understand), would abandon it, at least for next year.

Bimkom - agree with everything you have said. Let's hope the government does the right thing for once. Let's also hope that they're is leniency for our year 12s from the unis. There has been so much missed learning, missed work experience, missed life for them that will impact personal statements, confidence, ability.

Thank goodness the UCAT is done here. Good result for where she"s looking at applying. Her result was actually better than any of her mocks surprisingly.

Great news @WithIcePlease congratulations to your DD. It's a great for them to get it out of the way isn't it.

DD is slowly narrowing down choices! Tricky though isn't it.

Her attitude thus far has been 'anywhere that will have me' so she needs to do some thinking now.
Probably looking at Nottingham as top choice, Southampton, Manchester and no idea what else. She seems quite keen on Cardiff but drops one point on her GCSE's (8 x9's and 2 x7) so that seems unnecessarily risky

@WithIcePlease that was DDs approach too and still is to an extent, but she’s started looking more strategically now and we seem to be getting somewhere!
Nottingham is on DDs list too, along with Sheffield, StAndrews, Hull York - also possibly Birmingham but concerned after they changed their criteria this year.

I’m sure her choices will change again as she thinks it over but it’s not long until those UCAS forms have to be in!

Hi all, my daughter is due to take her Ucat on Tuesday, we will be glad when it is out of the way!
@WithIcePlease she also drops a point on GCSE's (got 9x9 and 2x7 (English!!). Do you not think it's worth applying for universities that put a heavy emphasis on gcse grades. The reason I ask is that she loves the look of Liverpool!

@redtulip12 good luck to DD for her UCAT. re her GCSEs, she will only have dropped one point so still very competitive with 26 points out of 27. I wouldn't rule it out especially if UCAT goes well.

@redtulip12 Ditto! DD due to take hers on Tuesday too. She is doing a mock now and I have just heard a frustrated shout from her

Does anyone know if 8s and 9s are the same points wise for GCSEs?

@GreyBow good luck to your daughter for Tuesday too!
Yes I believe 8's and 9's count as the same number of points.

I don't know about Liverpool as it's new this year but there's been lots of talk about the lack of transparency with Cardiff. Some with all a stars didn't get interviews - I would presume they didn't meet PS scoring criteria but that itself is not transparent
Seen as risky on TSR but I don't know the details

8 and 9 count as the same - I think the only exception I've seen is at Queens in Belfast.
I think Cardiff is seen as a bit shady because they say they only look at GCSE, but some were rejected prior to interview but with full marks - so they must use UCAT to an extent, but don't say anything about it or what the cut offs would be etc.

Sorry for the obvious question, but where can I work out what points DD has? If I ask her now JUST when she's finished a bad UCAT mock, I think she'll explode...

@GreyBow - which university do you want to work out her points for? Is it Liverpool?

Oh bugger. See, this is why I need this group! They are obviously all different .

Okay, I will search myself. But she is thinking of Oxford, Manchester, Leeds, Hull/York. I am wondering if (as she is bound to drop the thought of Oxford) that she should compare Sheffield, Nottingham, Cardiff, etc.

@GreyBow they are all different, depending on their criteria. I would recommend starting a spreadsheet!
They sound like a good batch of unis to start with - Leeds is BMAT, so if your DD decides against Oxford would she still want to go to all the trouble of sitting the BMAT if her UCAT is good? Just something to take into consideration.
To be honest, if you wait until DD has her UCAT score, then it becomes so much easier as you know what you're working with as it really seems to be important to apply strategically.
Also, for some, if they get Band 1 in situational judgement this can either give more points, or even count as full marks in one of the interview stations! Likewise, at a couple of places (Sheffield and Hull York are the ones I know of) then an A or above in EPQ allows then to drop a grade at A level, to AAB.

It's a minefield, but once you have her UCAT it will become easier, as you'll either have the pick of the bunch, if she does really well, and you can look at course style and see where she'd like to go, or if it doesn't go quite so well, some will be ruled out and it will be more obvious where to apply.

I hope this helps - I'm by no means an expert - DD sat her UCAT early, on 5th Aug so we are just a little further into the research that's all!

@LaLaFlottes It's SO helpful, thank you. DD has had a spread sheet for a while, but she won't share it!!! And then expects discussion when I have no idea really what to advise. She just thinks I know this stuff .

I am worried she may plough the UCAT at this stage. So she will definitely want to take the BMAT I think. It's about equal chance of her rocking or ploughing it from the mocks she's been taking.