Medicine 2021 - part 2

[Millylovespuddles]

Following on from the first thread:
DD now has UKAT booked for mid-August. She couldn’t get a driving theory test booked until after the UKAT date, but will keep an eye out for cancellations.
Now, her big dilemma is Oxbridge it not....

@goodbyestranger

It might not have come across like it but I was actually expressing agreement that it is unfair for those without the relevant connections to help them get the WE. It would be ideologically bonkers though for those with the connections not to use them even if only to see whether the child in question feels suited to the field of medicine after getting a better insight.

For point of reference I have no such connections and due to Covid all of DD's WE through schemes which could have levelled the playing field to an extent in this area of the med school application were cancelled. What's particularly niggling is that some with connections who had done some WE as a result also applied for the WE schemes and through sheer luck were allocated dates pre Covid so really have a lot to show on their applications.

DD has some done some volunteering for a few years now which may count but only in the mental health field.

Discarding WE this year is actually quite damaging. I'm not talking about WE shadowing in hospitals or those privileged opportunities that come from parents within the professions. Actually a lot of unis disregard shadowing and observational placements, so they're irrelevant. It's disadvantageous for those students who have held down long term volunteering roles in their community, retail jobs etc etc. A lot of students from disadvantaged backgrounds have jobs to supplement their income and normally this would be looked in favourably but this year there's not going to be a lot of credit for those roles.

WE isn't always linked to wealthy or knowledgeable parents, a lot of students have great WE which they've worked hard for independently and which normally would count for a lot especially if they haven't achieved the best gcses or highest ucat score. It's part of the holistic approach to the application a lot of unis used to have.

SATSmadness I realized that you were in agreement. And yes, down our way too it's been the case that all the students with a parent or parents who are hospital consultants do also always seem to apply for the week long access schemes which has always left me a bit grr! But that's life.

Powergower I was referring to those shadowing consultant type placements which allow well connected students to 'reflect', not the latter - retail etc. I would call retail etc regular long term, not work experience. My own DS worked in a cafe from Y9 through to Y13 and beyond and while that was discussed as an opener at his Oxford interview, I can't see how it in any way played into his selection for interview at his other, non-Oxbridge unis . He had really pretty limited medical work experience which also didn't seem to matter either way. I've long thought that the need for medical work experience for a successful application is overplayed. Not that it's not useful - obviously it's useful to prospective applicants in terms of seeing if a medical career might be for them - but a lack of it doesn't seem to have any great influence in who gets offers and who doesn't, at our school at least.

Sorry, that should read *regular long term work, not work experience.

Totally agree @Powergower. Surely the kind of WE you are talking about is valuable evidence of a DC's suitability to be a doctor and shouldn't be disregarded just because of COVID restrictions. It shouldn't be all about grades and UCAT/BMAT scores as you need a lot more than that to be a good doctor. I would say that if someone is really serious about signing up for such a demanding career, surely they would have sought out work experience well before March of this year. I'm not talking about sought-after hospital shadowing programmes etc. but caring and community-based volunteering opportunities and/or relevant part-time jobs. I also agree that it is good to level out the playing field so that DC with non-med/well-connected parents aren't disadvantaged but this is a different matter.

Totally agree @opoponax

My DD sought her own job for the NHS and her other experiences. I have never been to University, neither has her father. Or anyone else in our family for that matter. We are not doctors or professionals. Just normal average Joes. She is just an ambitious girl who went after what she wanted from a young age.

As I said in my earlier post, I understand that GCSEs/UCAT is the fairest way to select candidates. All I was saying is that I feel for DD who isn't at the very top of the UCAT deciles.

Goodbye - agree with everything you've said, but would disagree re WE and long term jobs. Most medical schools have historically really valued non medical employment as it does provide lots of really important transferable skills such as communication, teamwork, commitment, time management.

I agree with your comment that medical WE is overplayed and a lot of unis recognise this now. In fact keele actively advise not to mention certain experiences such as shadowing, observational placements and what they call saviour tourism (time abroad working on medical projects).

Yes I think it's correct that they valued DS's years in the cafe Powergower, once at interview, but I'm just not at all sure that it helped secure any interviews.

I completely get the point about seeking out non glam medical or quasi medical opportunities MaddieElla but apart from the difficulty for those without doctor parents, in some areas such as ours, lack of transport makes getting to those places extremely difficult. It's difficult to factor in fairly, although all credit to your DD for her steely determination!

That was very badly written - obviously you don't need medical connections to secure volunteering/ care home work.What I meant was that glam placements distort the field (one boy in our village - an Etonian - went to shadow a consultant friend of his parents in New York for a summer!), and that in rural areas with flaky public transport volunteering/ care home work can be very difficult to do logistically - so another thing which takes away from a level field.

Rural living definitely offers challenges- DD’s new job is in a city 17 miles away. But there’s only 1 bus route from here that goes to the centre, so she would need 2 buses, taking 1hr45 minutes for a 30 minute drive. Dh & I will be rearranging our schedules to take her.
I do understand the universities needing a way of ranking candidates but the UCAT infuriates me as a way of assessing the qualities a good doctor needs. And it’s definitely not a level playing field there, with better off families able to pay for more help for their children.

Dundee interview invite today. Nothing yet from Glasgow or Edinburgh, nothing on student room either

St Andrews interview came through today! For 26th Nov! DD is between being delighted and freaking out that it's so soon!

So now we are waiting for UEA and Leicester.

@emummy brilliant news!! Congrats.

Congrats both!

Blimey @LaLaFlottes that is SOON. Definitely early than never though

Fantastic news @emummy and @LaLaFlottes. Congratulations to your DC.

Fabulous news Lala and emummy!!! 26th November is so soon, but I'm sure your dd will be fine Lala. There's literally so much info out there with regard to interviews.

It'll be good to know how online interviews go.

Brilliant @LaLaFlottes, good luck to her!
Dd has booked hers for January, that’s just prolonging the agony IMO!

Well done both🎉🎉

Congrats to all the interviews

Still waiting to hear from anyone here ... although hearing of UEA interviews coming through for UCAT scores of 2560 (I think it was) so fingers crossed for at least one interview as DD has higher score than that.

IsThisNameTaken - I'm sharing your pain of still waiting hear to from anyone. But, at least there is a lot of action this week, so fingers crossed for some good news soon.

Congrats to those with invites!

Another one with nothing. With the added worry that HYMS have been sending them out all week.

I am genuinely uplifted when I see interviews coming through for people here though.

Good news in many households re interviews it seems.

DD has heard from her 2nd and 4th choices now re interviews.

Thank you all.

DD would rather have more time to prepare, but she's over the moon to have the interview.

DD has booked Sheffield for January and I think she would have preferred to have them all after Christmas but at least St Andrews is so soon that it's not in the middle of mocks in December, looking on the bright side!

@SATSmadness that's great your DD has heard from two of her choices.

I am sure that those still waiting will hear soon - UEA sounds like it will be fine @IsThisNameTaken. DD is waiting to hear from them too. We had a sneaky visit to the campus in the summer and it was so nice. Norwich was lovely too.

At least there is a lot more action this week - although I think the majority are still to start sending interview invites, so it's hopefully just a matter of time before more come out.

@MaddieElla I hope your DD's MPharm interview went well

@MaddieElla I agree that it is so uplifting hearing about DC getting interviews. It's a tough old gig this and I think it is so important to remember that it's an ever-changing situation. I've heard of kids with stellar stats getting four interviews and no offers, others getting one interview and converting it to an offer and one DC getting no offers the first time round and his very aspirational first choice second time round. All we can do is be there for them on this crazy rollercoaster ride.

DD has interview for UEA in 2 weeks time - she has mocks next week so won't have much time to prepare but is thrilled that someone might want her!!

@IsThisNameTaken brilliant news! Big congrats.