Medicine 2021 - part 2

[Millylovespuddles]

Following on from the first thread:
DD now has UKAT booked for mid-August. She couldn’t get a driving theory test booked until after the UKAT date, but will keep an eye out for cancellations.
Now, her big dilemma is Oxbridge it not....

With regards to interviews, I did make enquiries for interview prep in case my DS needed to repeat the process the following year but it wasn't required. I was told reasons for not converting interviews to offers can be one of the following;

1 Too much coaching can people feel that they can invest less of their own time and effort and that is
not always helpful.

2 - Choice of medical school. Some schools are more for academics and others are more suited to students who are more people-focussed. This is reflected in their teaching style and also in their recruitment style.

3 - Maturity. The rate of failure in boys is higher than girls at this
level of entry simply because boys can be a little behind. That would not affect scientific results but it would affect their people skills.

4 - Just bad luck.

5 - Competition. Some schools attract fierce competition and sometimes
you may be brilliant but others are just as good as you if not better.

Thank you to the posters offering so much insight, it's really helpful.

DD's sixth form college is offering a practice MMI circuit so she will have a bash at that and we have bought her the isc medical school interview book.

I had seen the courses, but would be concerned that as most applicants would probably do the same, or a very similar course, the interviewers might spot this a mile off and it might not go down too well?

I think there are quite a lot of free resources and will have a look at this over half term.

DD also asked if maybe people she doesn't know could mock interview her over Teams, so I will be recruiting a few of my friends or their husbands!

Does anybody have any idea how they are going to manage MMIs over an online connection? I see Sheffield have switched to panel interviews (presumably because they think it will be too complicated to do MMIs online). Is it clear that others are going ahead with an MMI format. and if so, how does it work?

There are some interview questions here from previous years for each school.

www.blackstonetutors.co.uk/medical-school-interview-questions.html

I have lots of links to relevant interview info if anybody would like any of it? PM me if not wanting to discuss here.
Generally, I suggest making a list of qualities needed for a Dr, eg empathy, communication, teamwork, resilience, problem solving, etc and making bullet points of WEx or other experiences that demonstrate this, or where an applicant has seen it. All med school select to these sort of criteria, so almost all questions will be looking for one of these and if you identify which one is wanted and have a mental list of things that show it, it removes some of the panic. Outside of Oxbridge, interviews are unlikely to ask academic questions, and even there, they are not likely to be standard tests of knowledge. It is important to have read and understood Good Medical Practice and be able to discuss ethical issues competently. Read the NHS Constitution. Also keep up to date with medical "news" and hot topics and know about each med school and location.
Those who have seen my musings on TSR will know I am against over-rehearsed answers, as applicants then try to answer the question they have "learned" rather than the exact one asked. I will also just add a follow up question pretty quickly, if it becomes obvious I am being given a "speech" that has come from a book or course. Practice is REALLY important, though. Come up with a list of questions (the ISC book is a good place to start) and get people to throw random questions at them. Smart phones will video their answers and show them what changes they may need to make in terms of eye contact, body language, enthusiasm, etc and how to do "enough" without overdoing it.
Perhaps the most important piece of advice to remember is that most applicants do not need to "stand out", they just need to be personable, communicate, show sensible thought-processes and give solid all-round answers. Those that stand out usually do so for the wrong reasons!

Thank you very much @GANFYD. Excellent advice as always.

Yes thank you @GANFYD this is much appreciated as they navigate the (hopefully) next steps in the process.

Some great advice, thanks very much everyone. Fingers crossed for some good news over the next month or two - it really is a marathon, not a sprint!

@GANFYD

I have lots of links to relevant interview info if anybody would like any of it? PM me if not wanting to discuss here. Generally, I suggest making a list of qualities needed for a Dr, eg empathy, communication, teamwork, resilience, problem solving, etc and making bullet points of WEx or other experiences that demonstrate this, or where an applicant has seen it. All med school select to these sort of criteria, so almost all questions will be looking for one of these and if you identify which one is wanted and have a mental list of things that show it, it removes some of the panic. Outside of Oxbridge, interviews are unlikely to ask academic questions, and even there, they are not likely to be standard tests of knowledge. It is important to have read and understood Good Medical Practice and be able to discuss ethical issues competently. Read the NHS Constitution. Also keep up to date with medical "news" and hot topics and know about each med school and location. Those who have seen my musings on TSR will know I am against over-rehearsed answers, as applicants then try to answer the question they have "learned" rather than the exact one asked. I will also just add a follow up question pretty quickly, if it becomes obvious I am being given a "speech" that has come from a book or course. Practice is REALLY important, though. Come up with a list of questions (the ISC book is a good place to start) and get people to throw random questions at them. Smart phones will video their answers and show them what changes they may need to make in terms of eye contact, body language, enthusiasm, etc and how to do "enough" without overdoing it. Perhaps the most important piece of advice to remember is that most applicants do not need to "stand out", they just need to be personable, communicate, show sensible thought-processes and give solid all-round answers. Those that stand out usually do so for the wrong reasons!

Some good advice there. However on the "over-rehearsed" answers. Obviously if by this you mean they are not addressing the particular questions but giving rehearsed answers that do not fully match the specific questions it will score poorly. This is very different than understanding the points that will score well and ensuring that as many of these points are ticked off. In MMI there will be points allocated for addressing perhaps 5 tick box elements. An eloquent and in depth response to one of these points will score a maximum of 1 point and will be beaten by someone aware of the system that knows they have to tick numerous point scoring boxes. A charming and personable personality will lose out to coached answers delivered however that tick all 5 of the responses that MMI questioners are recording.

BMAT question here ... did anyone's DC get an email offering them the online proctoring test demo?
DD hasn't registered to do it at home, so wondering if this was sent to all candidates so they can familiarise themselves with the computer-based format.
If not, it is possible the test centre already know they won't be able to accommodate the test and have made proctoring arrangements on the students' behalf.
Very curious....

Ganfyd and Billie. Thank you for the insightful posts. Everything seems so different this year, so many unis have not even confirmed how they plan to interview. A lot of the prep courses are online and seem to be no different to online info already out there on YouTube and other websites.

Ganfyd your point about not having to stand out is really interesting and actually very important.

@Powergower I agree it’s all so different isn’t it. DD is starting just by reading the ISC book and taking it from there. At first I was looking at courses as that seemed to be the natural thing to do, like we did Medify for UCAT. But I think there are free resources that sound just as good and maybe a mixture of those would be a better all round approach.

What are people’s thoughts about the number of applicants this year? It sounds like there are more applicants, but I was wondering how this affects things. I assume Unis will still only interview the same amount of applicants - even though more have applied? I wonder if they will interview less applicants if they have less places?

No way of knowing I suppose, and each uni may be different. Just putting my thoughts here as I don’t want to be saying these things to DD!

@Millylovespuddles

BMAT question here ... did anyone's DC get an email offering them the online proctoring test demo? DD hasn't registered to do it at home, so wondering if this was sent to all candidates so they can familiarise themselves with the computer-based format. If not, it is possible the test centre already know they won't be able to accommodate the test and have made proctoring arrangements on the students' behalf. Very curious....

My Daughter received the same email - she is due to write at school. Her year group were sent home last week as there were 6 cases of COVID. While they will be back at school for the start of the new term, it has made me concerned about what might happen if there are new cases when she gets back and if she is told to work from home again. The update on Thursday from Cambridge Admission Testing was that all tests would now be computer based: www.admissionstesting.org/for-test-takers/bmat/bmat-november/scoring-and-results/ There is a deadline of 18h00 on the 26th to apply for remote proctoring. I have written to the school and asked what we need to do... if anyone else has any ideas/information I would love to hear it!

21st - that seems to be a common scenario at present. DD is considering not going back till after the test to avoid potential contact.

She hasn't been in school for the past 3 weeks and half term starts tomorrow(!) so I doubt if we will get clarity on plan B options.

Lala - ds told me last night that keele have confirmed they've received an unprecedented number of applications which is likely going to take them until Jan 2021 to process so applicants might not hear back until then! I think the other unis will be in the same position. Stressful for the applicants and pushes everything back but the unis have no other choice.

I think some them are also still trying to work out how best to interview given there's going to be no face to face interviews/mmi. I just hope the whole process doesn't drag past March as the exam stress levels will be high by then.

Interesting and possibly alarming news @Powergower.

DDs school UCAS administrator mentioned to the group wanting to study medicine that Keele was a Uni that would accept lower UCAT score applicants than some of the others and it looks like this is the same for some other med schools.

www.themedicportal.com/blog/where-to-apply-with-a-low-ucat-score-2021-entry/

Could it be possible that a lot of applicants are choosing it as their insurance option ?

That, and also the fact that almost 5000 more students sat the UCAT this year. Of course, this isn't only for medics, but it all makes for a very competitive year on top of the rest of the new challenges our DC are facing....

It’s hard to know isn’t it, as for those Universities that use a simple UCAT ranking for selection for interview, surely the extra applicants simply pushes up the cut off for interview?

Maybe Keele is in quite a unique position as they use the R&R form to select for interview which must involve a lot more work for the admissions department as they have to process all of those and I assume score them in some way?

DD noticed on Leicester’s website they are saying they will interview around 1000 UK/EU applicants and 100 international applicants and then will make around 850 offers.

@Powergower I definitely think you are right and they are more than likely still figuring out how to carry out their interviews. Let’s hope it all becomes clearer soon.

That’s good that Keele are communicating though and managing expectations. It’s going to be a tricky few months for us all - parents and DC!

Lala and SATS - yes keele have an extra administrative step as they issue and then assess the r&r form. I assume they sift out those that don't meet their academic cut off before asking applicants to complete the rr form. I know one of ds friends has a rejection from keele so they do seem to be moving fast. Ds was just pleased he jumped over another hurdle and got to rr form stage. I wonder what percentage of those who complete the rr form get invited to interview.

He needs to submit it by next Monday and is very relaxed about it all. Meanwhile I'm trying not to gently remind him that the deadline is fast approaching. It's half term here and everyone is exhausted.

@Powergower DD is the same; I keep asking if she's finished it yet and she's getting there, slowly. She knows it's a make or break form and is taking her time.

She did say she'd be relaxing this half term (as much as they ever relax) but she's ended up agreeing to work every day as it's flu jab season and manic. She is at least having good lie ins and I did manage to drag her to the beach yesterday.

It is worrying me with all this "unprecedented applications" talk - I am hoping the government had the foresight to keep the lifted cap going for this year.

@Powergower and @MaddieElla congrats to your DD and DD for getting to the R&R form stage. That’s really great!

DD didn’t apply to Keele so I don’t know too much about it but I thought everyone submitted an R&R form and it went from there, so didn’t realise it’s another hurdle jumped to be given the form. Well done!