Heading towards 4th year or post grad/jobs

[Xenia]

Continuation of the previous thread for those of us with children who are just finishing their 3rd year at university (so either "graduating" in 2020 or going into year 4 in Autumn 2020)..........

My twins' degree results will be out in late July. Good luck to everyone else waiting for finals results.

Goodbye, she wants to be a solicitor, prob commercial, contract. Not barrister or family . Not my field and i know little ( need to do some research) She is doing history at a uni which is highly regarded as a source for law. Excellent A levels. She is reading and researching but trying to understand what the changes in post grad law exams mean.
How do you choose firms to apply to ( or do you just have to apply to loads and hope you are one of the few lucky ones ) In the new arrangements does law conversion course for those who have not studied law even exist ? Sorry lots of questions.

@olliepolly, I’m watching this as DS is doing Hostory, excellent Alevels and thinks he might do a law conversion. But I bet he’s not found anything out

Even with a law degree it is really tough to get a pupilage. There is still a lot of nepotism. Niece was 4 years post grad before getting foot in the door, just paralegal in between.

Ollie, sorry about the delay in responding about law careers. I always recommend law to people as I have and continue to enjoy it so much.

#Does law conversion still exist ?" Yes and in fact the course my twins started this month run by BPP is for both people qualifying under the existing system (which my twins will) and also those proposing to take the new SQE1 (and then SQE2) exam. However SQE1 has this week been delayed yet again. The decision on its approval has been delayed until October 2020 - www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/super-regulator-delays-sqe-approval-decision-/5105714.article

Assuming it would not be delayed by the time your daughter graduates she would probably still need to do a course such as BPP's PGDL one to learn the law and then would take SQE1 exams with Kaplan (the new centralised body which will mark the exams). If she obtains a training cnotract offer the firm will pay for this and say the route she should follow. When I checked last year with the regulator in case one of my sons did his gap year and started the conversion course in 2021 they told me he could still do the existing route - GDL, LPC as he would have accepted a place by summer 2021. It is possible the time table to new SQE will slip yet again however which may give even more time to the existing route.

In theory you could study for SQE1 at home and not pay any course fees but that might be quite hard so I think most people will still do a conversion course.

"How do you even start working out which law firms to apply to ?"
There is quite a good list on here which gives pay when training and once qualified which lists the bigger better firms www.rollonfriday.com/inside-info Generally on that list the higher the pay and higher the profit per equity partner the better the firms are regarded. I applied to 139 firms in my last year at university sa I graduated at a time when we had the worst unemployment for 50 years (3m in 1982) and had 25 interviews before getting an offer in my final year as a law undergraduate. I don't think most people then and now have to do so many but it is certainly competitive.

Timing is very important. If you want a law firm to pay for your 2 years of post grad course then you need to apply in time. Most of them recruit trainees from their paid vacation schemes so it is worth applying for those at your daughter's current stage - starting year 2 of university. This would give your daughter the chance to see if she would even want to work in a firm of solicitors. Eg this law firm Allen & Overy has applications open until 18 October for their winter vacation scheme programme - your daughter could apply to that now.

"Winter Vacation Scheme 2020 Students & Graduates
London - Bishops Square
"Job description
Our Winter Vacation Scheme is for students in their penultimate or final year of study or graduates from any degree discipline. Please note that you may only apply for one of our two vacation schemes in any twelve month period.
Applications open on 3 August 2020 and close on 18 October 2020.
The Scheme will take place from 7 to the 11 December 2020, so please ensure you are available to participate, should you be successful in securing a place on the scheme.
We recruit on a rolling basis so we strongly advise you to complete your application as early as possible, as we may close some opportunities ahead of the deadline. " www.aograduate.com/vacation-schemes

They also do summer vacation schemes too which is probably easier to fit around university commitments.

You can however still apply for a training contract without doing a vacation scheme - my older daughter did that and the firm she found paid for her law conversion course and LPC but again you have to apply in time eg summer holiday and start of year 3 (say 2020) at university when they will be recruiting for trainees starting 3 years ahead so year 3 university, GDL and LPC. If you miss the deadline as my daughter did you can take a gap year after the LPC which she did and she worked abroad for a year. If you are applying for vacation schemes in year 2 of university it can be a good idea to have some informal law work experience on your CV or something to show you are interested in law. My daughter did a week in a law firm aged 16 and I think about 2 or 3 days in the BBC legal department a bit later.

I do not think this system will change too much with the SQE exams.

Lots of people are trainees in firms which do not pay for the courses too and more regional firms.

Apologies too olliepolly. I'm not clear about the changes so interesting to read Xenia's reply.

What I would add to that though is that I've had a couple of DC going through the Magic Circle vac scheme thing recently. The first read law at uni so less relevant (did two MC vac schemes in summer of second year). The firm she accepted an offer from paid for her LPC also a relatively decent maintenance grant. The training was also fantastic - the best grounding she could possible have.

The second is currently a trainee at a different MC firm, working much more from home than he'd like. He's a history grad, did no legal work experience at all because he thought he'd like to go into banking instead so did a couple of internships there over the second year vac and again after graduating. He applied to two MC firms at that point (still with no law experience at any stage), got a couple of days winter vac schemes at each, got offers from both and has had an even more generous financial package than his older sister. He's very outgoing and articulate and I'm certain that the combination of applying with a first in hand and the banking internships was key to his warm reception. For the top commercial firms I'd say a banking internship plus a MC vac scheme would be top dollar tbh.

At the moment things are a bit wobbly in some firms but applying can't do any harm - just worth being aware that places may be reduced.

Thank you very much Xenia and goodbye. Very much appreciate your detailed replies. I will show to DD2. Taking her back to Bristol this weekend.

Thank you very much Xenia and goodbye.

Had to check where Xenia was going just then.

Haha, me too @Haffdonga! 😆

Ollie was thanking me and also "goodbye" as in username. Good luck with the trip to Bristol. i got my son's twin to drive him instead which is fair enough as the one staying at home then gets their shared car all term. The one in Bristol had residents' parking there last year but this year there is none by his flat as it is more central.

Anyone interested in law conversion courses (or bar or solicitor courses) applications open with the Central Applications Board on 1 October 2020 in about a week's time for September 2021 start although my sons would tell me to point out you can apply at the last minute too if you prefer right through to July 2021. I will be encouraging the twins to apply for their Legal Practice Course next week as they are sure of what they are doing so might as well get on with it.

Same here! Glad that was a false alarm, Xenia!

Exasperated that ds, after 100 failed efforts, found two opportunities. And now both places have said that due to new restrictions and finances, the jobs are off.

Just found you again. Dd is starting her masters applications now for next year.

Ds has just headed north for final year...7 hr train journey - but thankfully train very quiet thankful for small mercies
He's sharing flat with another guy on his course that's he's shared with for last 2 years but now with the restrictions in Scotland he won't be able to visit any of his other course mates in their flats and with winter approaching won't be hanging around much outside in N E Scotland
He has some f2f with his tutorial groups and dissertation supervisor and has some lab time for his subject options
However he ( and we) are also prepared for another lockdown which he's hoping to use to his advantage and get his head down with his dissertation ...I've also told him to get some baking gear for flat so at least he can fill some of his time constructively!

Xenia should they apply for lpc as well as applying to firms? Any one you recommend?

Some people say do not apply to the LPC until you have a training contract with a firm which will be paying your LPC fees and that is not a bad recommendation. However if you can afford to pay for the LPC or want to take out a loan for it (plus masters if you want a student loan for most of the cost) then in my view you might as well get on with it. it is a risk though for those without a training contract as the course is only for those wanting to become solicitors.

For the LPC my daughters did it with BPP as most of the big firms use them (and indeed my older daughter's fees were paid by her law firm and she had to go to BPP - in their case in London). The University of Law which used to be the College of Law when I went was the original only provider for that stage 2 solicitors' course and I am sure they are good too. Usually I saw London BPP as you will be with future trainees of big firms, in London for job interviews and it's bigger and probably with better tutors BUT in a lockdown where everything is on line perhaps that all changes.... I still prefer BPP even this year.

Hancock refuses to rule out Christmas student lockdown www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-54278053

I'm not quite sure how he could police this, but we could be having a quiet Christmas for 2 this year.

I can't tell from that report if the question was about 'banning them from going home' or 'asking them to stay' - which are not exactly the same thing.

I told DD before she went back at the start of August, when she was talking about coming back by train for Xmas that there was a good chance that wouldn't be a good idea and that it might turn out not possible to come home at all. She looked sceptical but I wouldn't be surprised if I'm right.

One of her housemates is from Cyprus - he's not been home since last Xmas and I don't think he's got any plans to try to return before next summer.

DS's Masters application was rejected. ☹️ They said his degree wasn't relevant.
So, he's going to appeal - he does have a lot of experience, so hopefully will make a good case for reconsideration.

Anyway, we'll see what happens but as I said to DH, not many people get by in life without some form of rejection somewhere along the line; it's how he deals with it that matters.

@latedecember1963; I was thinking about you today; hope your eye problem is ok.

Oh Horsemad. That's tough for ds. Is there an alternative Masters he'd consider or is his heart set on this one?

DS is waiting to hear if his grad scheme will go ahead. It has already been delayed because of Covid but concerned it won't go ahead at all. Trying to stay hopeful as he worked really hard to get the offer. He normally takes things in his stride but finding the uncertainty really stressful. It's so tough for them all.

Oh gosh, that's tough horsemad. Does he have a plan B?

DD has just been told all her lectures and seminars will be online. Previously she was told seminars would be face to face. Also her sports team has been cancelled for the foreseeable future.

All I can think about is the wasted rent money when she could have stayed home.

This is just such a sad situation but even if my DD's planned face to face teaching goes online she would still want to be at uni to use the library. Or at least she will when she is recovered from covid.

Errol, my son and 2 friends went to Cyprus on holiday before term started and it was really easy. You get a covid 19 test, negative , then fly - on arrival they test you again. I am surprised the person has not been back but may be there are other reasons not to.

Thanks Haffdonga & Errol. He's going to have a think today and go from there.

Oh that’s tough horsemad, hopefully he can get something.

DS1 is back , he and I had lunch yesterday when I was dropping DS2 off. He’s not starting lectures for a few weeks yet but getting on with some pre course work.

Drop off experience for DS2 was a world away from the excitement previously- coloured wristbands Mandatory to be worn and warnings If found out of approved coloured area.

His flat mates seem nice but a bit quiet he was so excited to go but called last night to say it’s all a bit flat .

I’m desperately worried - normal going away worry but now with extra virus worry on top.