Settle an argument for me - should DS study marketing or an academic subject?

[Istory]

DS is smart but perhaps has always enjoyed having fun more than working hard. Likely to get BBB or perhaps ABB.

He's keen on going to a good but more vocationally oriented University to study marketing. It does seem to set graduates up with good employment options after graduating and I can see it's a solid choice.

However it does give me pause. I didn't really fall in love with my traditional academic degree subject until I went to university and studied it at that level. I don't know who I'd be without it now, I really feel it shaped me as a person. While it didn't give me any clear employment opportunities after graduating it did give me a huge range of options. I did various bits of professional training after graduating and am now a high earner in a profession where I think everyone I've come across did a traditional academic subject at University.

It's DS's decision of course but I just want to give him the best advice possible. I'd prefer for him to study any traditional academic subject at a good university and we'd support him throughout and afterwards if he wanted to do internships or a CIM qualification or something like that. He does enjoy his A level subjects and in my own experience I only really became passionate about them at University.

What do you think?

Is a History degree the luxury apartmentt of the graduate world when it comes to defying the basic laws of supply and demand these days? You know, however many blocks of them the developers put up in an area, each successive wave is never any cheaper than the last (however much, to the casual eye of the local resident, the real need is for something much less luxury and indeed, preferably less apartment)?

Some say that a degree in history is for students who don't know what to do at university (I don't subscribe to this theory BTW).

History teachers are the only subject teacher not in short supply.

That’s because virtually any university offers history in some form or another. There’s an over supply of history grads full stop so of course some will teach. There’s not an over supply of maths grads so they don’t teach.

A lot of marketing grads won’t necessarily go forward to general management grad roles in companies. They might get marketing jobs but these can have limited progression within a company. The A level requirements on less good marketing courses are often not comparable with the requirements at Bath for Management and obviously not Oxford or similar top business and management schools. Some companies will also prefer a wide range of academic grads that can be “moulded”.

I am pretty shocked that BBB is considered rubbish these days. But I've been having a look at a few universities for ds and it is very clear he needs to get his finger out and work harder. Currently predicted grades are BBC but his personal tutor says he will get AAB if he stops coasting, and he's going to need AAB as a minimum for a decent history/politics/law/combination degree.

When I went to university you could get onto a good law degree course with BBC. And fewer students went - so why on earth are grade requirements so high now - and why are universities not taking into account the current situation with their 2021 entry requirements? Sorry to derail thread - perhaps I should start my own!

@cologne4711 that’s precisely the reason entry requirements are higher. More people go to uni now so especially the top unis especially have high demand so they need high entry requirements to filter some students out out.
Also Entry requirements for lower ranked unis often do not actually mean anything pertaining what they will accept through clearing on results day.

Many will say AAB on their website for entry requirements but will accept as low as BBC on results day. The idea is the entry requirements reflect the prestige of the uni so if a uni reduced their entry requirements then those applying would feel like it’s a less prestige university.
Of course especially this year many courses will be in clearing and will accept grades way below the published entry requirements.

Also Entry requirements for lower ranked unis often do not actually mean anything pertaining what they will accept through clearing on results day.

And what about all the unconditional offers?

It’s always worth remembering that although a few employers don’t look at university attended they will look at A level grades attained. That gives them a steer regarding where somewhere might have gone. Likewise if you put down a marketing degree, they know it’s not Durham or similar.

When you have 45% of DC going to university it’s plain plenty will have BBB but this doesn’t relate to the grades you got years ago. My DH went to Sheffield to do Civil Engineering with only one grade at B and that wasn’t in maths! He wouldn’t get near that course now with his grades. However if he was at school now, I have a suspicion he would have better grades! Luckily for him, 9% going to university in his day, and most from grammar schools, meant high A level grades weren’t needed unless you wanted Oxbridge. A family member went to UCL with less than stellar grades too.

The flip side of this is that thousands couldn’t access university. However we do need to be aware that the pecking order of universities is now very real and employers will differentiate between courses and universities attended. Whatever way you look at it, sitting on a possible BBC closes lots of doors but keeps plenty open but not Law or History at a top 20 university.

Going into the current climate and recession Imo a vocational degree with add much more security then a traditionally academic one.

Make sure the degree is accredited by the chartered institute of marketing.

That doesn’t hold true if you compare vocational at a lower ranking university (unless health service related) with history at Oxbridge or similar. Lots of vocational courses end up with averagely paid jobs with not much prospect of higher earnings. There is no evidence that highly intelligent people with degrees in History, Geography or even Classics won’t get good Jobs in a recession.

yes, there has been grade inflation. Most people didn't even do 3 A levels at my school in 1979. My AAB was exceptional for the school. Neighbours were coming up in the street saying I should take a year out and do Oxbridge. My daughter's AAB (before A stars were out) was very good too and I am sure she would say as good as my AAB. My son's AAA (he is just graduating from Bristol) you could argue is the best exams of us all but it is very hard to compare over different periods and schools. However more higher grades are a fact and it will entirely be because pupils are brighter or work harder or the teaching is better. So top law firms eg seem to have an AAB minimum threshold just otherwise you get so very many thousands and thousands to sort out from it becomes unworkable. My son's friend has a history degree (assuming she just passed finals) and is starting a very good banking job very shortly. History does not seem to have put off that bank.

My DSis got AAA at A level in academic subjects and her grammar school never suggested Oxbridge. I suspect they thought she wasn’t the type. Very few got AAA in the 70s or early 80s.

For me the problem here is that more and more people are making career changes. I know very few people who haven't changed industry/sector at some point. A very targeted/niche degree could be a hindrance for that.

I think he should do the course he wants to do, whether that be marketing or a more traditional option.

DS has just graduated and he said the students who had been cajoled/forced into doing the course by parents rarely lasted beyond the first year.

A very targeted/niche degree could be a hindrance for that.

Indeed. Just like an awful lot of degree subjects, though? And presumably Marketing will give you study skills, just like Architecture, Nursing, Biological Sciences, English Lit....