Settle an argument for me - should DS study marketing or an academic subject?

[Istory]

DS is smart but perhaps has always enjoyed having fun more than working hard. Likely to get BBB or perhaps ABB.

He's keen on going to a good but more vocationally oriented University to study marketing. It does seem to set graduates up with good employment options after graduating and I can see it's a solid choice.

However it does give me pause. I didn't really fall in love with my traditional academic degree subject until I went to university and studied it at that level. I don't know who I'd be without it now, I really feel it shaped me as a person. While it didn't give me any clear employment opportunities after graduating it did give me a huge range of options. I did various bits of professional training after graduating and am now a high earner in a profession where I think everyone I've come across did a traditional academic subject at University.

It's DS's decision of course but I just want to give him the best advice possible. I'd prefer for him to study any traditional academic subject at a good university and we'd support him throughout and afterwards if he wanted to do internships or a CIM qualification or something like that. He does enjoy his A level subjects and in my own experience I only really became passionate about them at University.

What do you think?

Not that any of them are probably having much fun at the moment, poor souls.

I would have always said an academic degree and then specialise. My DCs' friends who have done marketing and the like in ex polys have mostly got jobs while my arty lot are still wondering what to do.

I was actually agreeing with you errol : in other words, there are plenty of good opportunities for people with BBB grades, which are a perfectly good set of A Level grades.

BBB grades, which are a perfectly good set of A Level grades.

If BBB (and its BTEC Extended Fiploma equivalent) were genuinely representative of the unemployably thick end of the post-18 cohort, then everything they say about grade inflation is true...

The vast majority of people lie somewhere between 'the unemployably thick end' and 'academic', though, don't they?

Apologies, piggy ... I get a bit irked by the 'only on MN ' trope.

My degree was in English/Classics and I've been in Marketing my whole career. I did do the CIM qualification too and I personally like this route as it gives you a far wider choice post university to look at a variety of roles that might suit. I would worry that a Marketing specific degree would limit your choices? That said, my degree was a good few years ago so things may have changed!

I can understand that but in my real world, people go 'ooooo' at BBB and I think it is depressing that some people seem to look down on what can be a real achievement so I think we both got irked! Peace and Love.

I do agree someone shouldn't do a marketing degree just because it seems fun or soft : OP's DS should really look into it. There are other routes in : including these days apprenticeships, of course.

I think it is also important to differentiate between marketing , advertising, management and business, all of which have different emphases and slightly different recruitment pathways and preferences.

But it is a pretty long established degree, that said. Quite a few universities have taken it up more recently but it's been at the ones I have named for a long time and has a solid tradition.

I did a history degree and now work in marketing. Wish I'd done marketing at uni though as I've had to do some extra courses to understand it all. Marketeers are in demand, if he loves it, he should do it.

Why is this an argument?
Let your poor son live his own life.
Time to let home go, he's not a child, he can make his own decisions, mistakes and be happy for it.

Mistakes can end up with significantly reduced incomes, unhappiness and regrets. Lots of parents try and steer DC to avoid this as, when decisions are made, many DC are not adults and have limited life experience.

No one said BBB was poor but if DC could do better if he knuckled down, its a shame if he won’t as it will knock out better ranked courses that want AAB! That’s not an unreasonable position to take on any forum. Better grades also open up much better general management courses giving him greater choice of employment should he want it. There’s nothing wrong with suggesting that either!

My DD is studying Marketing and Management and loves it. She wanted to take a degree in history but during her gap year started working in a large department store and helped out sometimes in the small marketing department, which got her interested in consumer behaviour. After researching she decided a Marketing degree was what she really would love to do. She has sailed through her first year assignments with mainly A's and I am almost certain this wouldn't have been the case if she had taken history as she hated parts of her A level. We have a friend with a Business to Business Marketing agency who will only take on staff with a degree (not just marketing) so as mentioned not all employers have the same criteria. Some universities enable you to take a CIM qualification alongside the degree, but certainly look for a course that is CIM accredited because not all are. We also found a large discrepancy in the course content. One university had an awful lot of accounting sessions in the first year which to me looked like they were padding out the face to face hours somewhat. Of course accounting should be covered but two hours a week seemed excessive to my husband who has been a marketing professional for 30 years.

@Piggywaspushed

Agreed. And agreed.

Although only on MN does the world stop turning if you get BBB at A level!

I agree @iggywaspushed. When did BBB become poor A level results?

@hubarbAndMustard I did CIM as well. Is this more respected than a degree in marketing? I was already working in marketing when I was studying CIM though.

Why is this an argument?
Let your poor son live his own life.
Time to let home go, he's not a child, he can make his own decisions, mistakes and be happy for it.
It doesn't have to be an argument, but working with 18 year olds is a daily reminder that they're not suddenly mature adults with the foresight and forward planning. Thankfully most of them have adults in their life who are willing to share their experiences and offer advice.

Mistakes aged 17/18 can have lasting consequences, not always terrible, but it's responsible parenting to encourage your child to consider the big commitments and decision they're making in early adulthood.

It's only really on here that I've come across the idea that as soon as someone turns 18 parents should say 'off you go' and have no parental responsibility.

I think marketing and management or even marketing with communications would be a better shout. That would give him a really broad basis to work from and means he could explore other modules as they come up. I only say this because OP's post doesn't scream 'this kid has a real passion for marketing' - and if you don't have a passion for a narrow degree, what's the point? Much better to go broader.

I agree : however, we know little about the DS himself . It more comes across to me that the OP screams 'I don't want my DS to do marketing' as much as anything!

OP hasn't been back so difficult to know really what the DS knows or feels...

I work in marketing and have a history degree. Lots of roles advertise they would like a marketing or business degree though IME this isn't enforced.

His best chance of going into marketing is going the degree but also looking at internships (many are paid now) or creating a blog, joining societies and doing newsletters etc - show evidence for marketing passion.

I've hired entry level marketing roles and I wanted people who understand tech (social media, email programmes, basic website), who could write well and who were very organised.

If you want any more specific advice happy to help.

Op the thing is you can’t make him study something he doesn’t wish to, That way disaster lies. There are no guarantees he will fall in love with his subject at uni, in fact the opposite is highly likely.

Yes, in my experience he is limiting his options than if he did something combined with marketing modules, but if he doesn’t wish to then let him be.

Many employers will see marketing as a softer degree, not quite media studies, but not far off and will be looking for grads with a more solidly academic degree under their belt

I think the key is to talk to him about why is he going to uni and what does he wish to do after, what companies would he love to work for. And what degrees do their intakes normally have. The info is available on line if he Googles. So he should do some research.

Not into what the company says on their blurb, but the reality, the grads they have typically taken on. What degrees do they have, and what unis.

Marketing is a fantastically flexible degree to have, employers love it as it shows a good deal of depth in understanding of strong communication and chanelling creative ideas into practical business use. There's nothing wrong with doing a purely academic degree, but if this is what your son wants to do then I'd say you need to let him choose. As a side note, CIM is not going to be as helpful to working in marketing as the specific degree would be.

Many people do CIM when they are already working.

Marketing is not as flexible as Business or Management at degree level. It’s viewed as great for marketing in some firms but once you’ve got that degree other avenues are less open as you are viewed as a specialist. It’s a bit like doing accountancy when you could have done maths. It’s relatively narrow and career focussed. Marketing isn’t especially great for finance, estate management, business strategy, merchandising, legal compliance or HR but a maths grad could go in any direction. Management grads ditto.

How passionate is he about marketing, and how likely is this to be sustained through university? If he has a sustained well-informed passion for Marketing that is different from a more vague interest in the subject.
How useful is a Marketing degree in other fields? (genuine question).
How safe is a Marketing career - are graduate jobs likely to be affected by a recessions, changes in the industry? (also genuine question, I don't know, but I know a few very strong graduates who struggled to get into Legal careers due to changes in the industry, some had to choose a different career, whereas they wouldn't have struggled 5 years prior).

I know of two people who embarked on specific more vocational degrees (one of them Marketing!) who didn't enter the field as they changed their mind, and later said that they regretted their degree choice as it wasn't useful in applying for jobs in other fields. They had done a couple of weeks work experience before applying, but their interests changed over the years. They weren't at particularly strong unis (either for the specific subject or in general rankings) which probably affected how useful their degree was generally.

Generally I'd say go for a more general degree with a Masters afterwards (as you have said you will support him through a Masters) to keep options open. If he isn't very hard working though, he may fare badly in a more general academic degree that he isn't interested in. Especially one with few contact hours where you are expected to be more self-directed.

If he isn't sure about his direction a year of work, or some kind of apprenticeship, may be a better option than embarking on a narrow degree at a mediocre uni if he isn't really committed to a career in that industry.

If he is really strongly committed to Marketing, can he use that passion to work harder and get the grades for the unis that have well respected Marketing departments mentioned above?

Marketing is a fantastically flexible degree to have, employers love it

This is not my experience, I work for a large corporation and we would not even interview someone with this degree for a grad placement. Nor would any of the top companies, unless the candidate went to a really stand out uni and had something extra about them. Sadly most stand out unis don’t even offer it.

@Bluntness100 That's strange as many of those I know with a marketing degree went on to do grad schemes with large/top companies (e.g. Coca-cola, Panasonic, Rolls-Royce, Sky etc)! Interested to know why you wouldn't interview? Surely you could miss out on some potentially very good candidates?