3 out of 4 UK universities have slipped in global rankings

[HannahStern]

Almost three quarters of British universities have slipped in a global ranking published today.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/uk-universities-including-oxford-marked-down-in-global-rankings-jrctm8qjq

UK universities are heavily dependent on the recruitment of international students for survival and there has been an almost complete collapse in numbers. We face some extremely tough years ahead.

[titchy]

I'm aware of that summer - but the majority of universities total research income comes from the RCs. Charities aren't great funders unfortunately as they don't tend to award on a FEC basis, though UKRI top up a little bit.

Gov funding for research is pretty stable; there hasn't been declines like with teaching funds. Though that may change of course.

I'm not sure I'd necessarily agree that you need big awards for quality. Plenty of small awards generate a 4* REF output, though the citation measure the international league tables use might be biased towards those institutions producing quantity.

I agree the drop is concerning though and UK HEIs are in for a really really tough few years. Not all will survive.

[sendsummer]

I’m not sure I'd necessarily agree that you need big awards for quality
I have not suggested otherwise although it is mostly true for laboratory research. Also as a general rule of course highly rated universities attract more funds which continues to allow them to to produce high impact 4* publications.
Government funding may have been stable but this is an unique economic situation.

[sendsummer]

Your point about charities not providing FEC is correct (hence the desire to source industry funding) but the funding from them has generated a lot of high impact research. And that has helped positions in international league tables.

[Pullthebricksdown]

People rejoicing at the chance to cull 'non' subjects or less elite universities forget that all the extra students doing cheap-to-teach subjects subsidise the expensive STEM lab-based ones. Can't be openly mentioned but there it is. Plus less elite universities don't all have medical schools but they do have nursing degrees so that will impact all the extra nurses we're going to need. And of course the whole system will be gamed to prop up the biggest smoke and mirrors trick of all - the Russell Group, who will be among the biggest losers from not getting international students, and who continue to get parents to believe that they supply a superior learning experience, rather than a label on the final product that is more appealing to potential employers.

[My0My]

What nursing degrees are at the elite universities?

It may well be necessary to revert back to HE colleges. The huge advantage is that you do similar courses to those that are now offered as degrees but would instead be courses offered to young people and older students who could train locally.

Everyone knows humanity degree fees pay for more expensive STEM degrees. That’s hardly new info or a secret. However the lowest ranking unis are rarely medical schools. They probably don’t offer physics or chemistry either. So no great loss there and there needs to be some rationalisation.

[titchy]

The lower ranked often do teacher training as well as nursing - so be careful what you wish for. I don't think anyone wants a future where teachers and nurses are in even shorter supply than they are now.

Making those occupations non-graduate as they used to be means women don't get degrees in anywhere near the same proportion as men.

In any case the thread isn't about the lower ranked.

KCL offers nursing myomy btw - and a few other RGs. And Anglia Ruskin does medicine.

[MedSchoolRat]

Nothing that My0My is suggesting will solve the University crises in 2020.

[My0My]

What I’m suggesting is that you rationalise provision in the light of reduced numbers and funding. It’s what every other sector HAS to do in a crisis. It will lead to massive unemployment so universities will have to have creative solutions because it seems impossible for the government to bail out every industry with fewer customers. Which is what students are.

Of course you can merge courses and you don’t close down full courses. You could move them to another university though! Nursing at X university could live to Y and they merge. I’m not sure why teaching courses couldn’t do the same and many of these are school based anyway.

Just because a new university offers a certain course it doesn’t mean it has to continue to offer it. By allowing some universities to move down to the HE sector, you concentrate on fewer universities which then get the funding. No business can keep going like this with fewer customers and change must be considered. No one likes it but asking for more bail outs is pie in the sky.

[My0My]

Move to Y university...,

[titchy]

Nursing at X university could live to Y and they merge.

Having been on the periphery of a merger I can categorically tell you that the students at X did NOT want to go to Y.... in most parts of the country X and Y are geographically very distant. They can't just up sticks, and often their families, and move. And even if that wasn't a problem, the same number of students are still in the system. The outlay is the same. You've just made town X's unemployment figures quadruple (for most university towns the university is the second largest employer after the local hospital).

By allowing some universities to move down to the HE sector, you concentrate on fewer universities which then get the funding.

Did you mean move the FE sector?

[My0My]

No. I meant have a HE sector which is not a university and doesn’t award degrees. There are lots of low tariff courses that are far closer to the old HNDs of days past.

I disagree about universities being distant. Many are geographically close. Certainly any city with two universities doesn’t have this issue. Nursing has many hours actually spent in hospitals and not in classrooms at all! So that’s a degree that could be merged in future. Not for existing students but this is long term planning.

If everyone doesn’t have any ideas about how to boost university funding, other than implore the government to subsidise it even more, then it’s a sector that needs to be a bit more creative. What would posters think could be done other than beg for money?