Is it worth going to uni in Sep 2020 or better to defer until Sep 2021

[langdale2016]

We are wondering if it's worth DS starting his degree in Sep 2020, as it islikely to be online and there won't be the opportunities to join in with freshers' week, meet new people etc as it is likely that his course will start online.

We don't want to have to pay for accommodation (which he is unlikely to live in) as money is really really tight, as it is for most people I suspect.

I'm also not sure that DS working from home in his bedroom, is worth paying all those tuition fees either. He is currently building up his own online business so deferring for a year could help him concentrate on making that successful. He is on his gap year at the moment so it would mean two years out of education. To his credit he's been devouring books and research related to his chosen subject so it won't be a problem to get back into the swing of study.

I just think that one of the biggest benefits of studying for a degree is to use this as the opportunity to spread your wings and become independent. It looks extremely likely that this years intake won't have that opportunity as, without a vaccination, I don't see how lecture theatres. halls of residence and student bars will manage social distancing.

What do others think?

That’s the one langdale!

I think campuses who open will attract the most students so I hope they are doing all they can

Error - yes surely it will be far easier to get into some unis now eg the London ones

There are going to be massive gaps in students for September to the extent that the government is considering intervening and spreading students so that the less desirable universities don't go bust, ie there will be spare places at Russell group institutions but won't be filled.

A factor for me would be what degree the student would be taking, ie some like medicine just cannot be done online.

Frankly, having seen this myself with friends children, many are going and getting 6-9 hours a week maximum tuition, all of which is available on podcast. They get a maximum two sessions with their tutor a year. To pay £9k a year for that is a joke frankly but what this will all expose is that many university courses, based upon such poor levels of teaching can easily be completed online and even the two sessions with a tutor on a 1-1 a year could be Skyped. So no need for accommodation costing £5k a year and living away from home costs. Obviously doesn't give the living away experience but that seems to be more and more what some universities are offering as it certainly isn't the teaching!

The proposed 5% cap is on the number of UK and EU students.

It is to prevent the universities who have lost lots of international students from trying to replace them with UK students who are trading up, leaving the lower-ranked institutions facing bankruptcy because they have no students. In return for agreeing to the cap, the universities that have lost lots of international students will receive a financial bailout.

MarieG10 - I agree with every word you say. Having seen what a vastly diminished university experience my own dcs have had in recent years, compared with mine, it wouldn't bother me in the slightest if some of them don't survive this. They are massively oversized money-grabbing institutions that offer poor quality, impersonal education and offer little in the way of support, particularly to vulnerable students.

@Medievalist

Yes...similar to what I experienced at uni to what kids get these days apart from some courses like dentistry, medicine engineering etc.

Friends son was going to uni and changed mind. Landed a job at 18 starting salary £27k. I encouraged him to take it as I am seeing graduates leaving uni applying to my company and I feel really sad as they have spent a fortune in their degree which is frequently of little value in getting them a job and all it does it get them over the degree requirement threshold but when we test and interview them, many seem to have spent 3-4 years with little learning apart from pub prices.

As ever there are the small number that excel and they stand out but I'm seeing and have for ages, graduates basically taking low laid admin jobs on minimum wage and just hoping to work their way up. I admire them at least doing that and on occasions there are opportunities to develop them but it is difficult as their expectations as so high compared with reality. And this was in a vibrant jobs market, not what is coming soon

True, some may not find it attractive to go to university. In fact some jobs hardly need a university degree. But I do not think they are
"oversized money-grabbing institutions that offer poor quality, impersonal education and offer little in the way of support, particularly to vulnerable students."
Top universities are very competitive worldwide. I do not understand why we need to trash them.

If my DCs has qualified for RG, I would not expect them to be rerouted to lesser quality.
Many humanities courses have 6-8 hours teaching a week. But, the DC have to do research. This might be in an expensive library. They might use a lot of other facilities and sure as hell, their fees are subsidising the engineers and scientists and medics so they don’t pay anywhere near the going rate!

STEM degrees cannot be done online.
The COVID vaccine is being developed in a lab, not over Zoom.
Remote learning will do irreparable damage to UK science

Science everywhere in universities one imagines. Not just the uk.

Uk seems to be worst hit though? Compared to Germany etc so I imagine their unis will open just fine

US probably more like us and more hesitant? We shall see.

If schools open in September why wouldn't universities?
If universities don't open in September their reputation will really suffer.

If schools open in September why wouldn't universities?
If universities don't open in September their reputation will really suffer.

Because universities are vast institutions where it would be impossible to exercise any meaningful social distancing. And most students don't go home at the end of the day - they're crammed into rabbit hutch accommodation with shared kitchens.

And if enough students decide not to go or to defer a year because they don't want to spend thousands of pounds to sit in a box room and do online lectures, then some won't be able to open.

I know ive said this before but the age/risk profile for most students is such that the risk of going back in september may well be considered acceptable. Its not clear what changes by january make that better As an option - or are people thinking we are more likely to have drug treatments or vaccines by then?

There may be some risk reduction methods for the autumn start - focus track and trace on larger universities in september/october, discourage or even ban returning home in term time for those living away from home, ditch freshers week and maybe require student night clubs to stay shut for the first term?

If Lockdown measures are going to Start to be eased in june, quite a few more people will be immune by september as well, which would reduce the risk further. (Assuming there is a degree of immunity, which seems to be considered likely now?)

maybe require student night clubs to stay shut for the first term?

Most 'student' night clubs are 'normal' night clubs with discount nights for students. But whether on-campus or in town, they may not be able to open before Christmas anyway.

Good point marching - so the environment will be generally less conducive to transmission as well. Same if the local pubs are closed or social distancing, i suppose.

Interesting article in the guardian that shift to online may risk more less advantaged students dropping out.

That's a good point, acorn, it's all very well for the kid with a calm house, their own bedroom, a decent laptop and broadband to study at home. But the one who is sharing a room with their 12 year old brother, who has limited tech access, who has parents unsupportive of education, is living in a home with domestic violence? Not so easy.

This article is also interesting, but again confirms that no one knows what will happen in September, a very unsettling time...

www.theguardian.com/education/2020/may/05/covid-19-has-made-universities-financial-forecasts-redundant-good-luck-to-us-all

Acorns I agree that the students can adapt their behaviour, and with bars etc closed spread could be far less than some fear. There are so many options and there is time to plan (compared to some work places, schools etc who might be going back earlier)

I'm not in the position of ours starting in Sept but I would worry about the mental health of some students when you combine online tuition and podcasts, limited opportunity to work and being confined more than normal to student accommodation. For those that get 6-9 hours tuition max a week which will probably be delivered by podcast (most already are) it beggars the question why they need to live on site.

A friends child attended a good uni and many didn't attend the lectures and just used the inline podcast (due to hangover and not CV) and seemed to work

Live on site - to use labs, libraries etc

I’m sure some will do more online and reduce contact time and those with health concerns will do that anyway.

It’s going to be a bit of a hotch potch but better than nothing

Over on the ‘wait for grades and better days ahead’ there’s a post setting out the universities minister’s recent statement to students. The section on accommodation is interesting though it doesnt reveal much about govt thinking on whether courses will be on site. Of course they don’t know, so perhaps not surprising! I didnt spot any mention of an arts/science divide.

Labs are high risk places
you do not "hodge podge" them
libraries are closed

engineering labs have to be properly staffed
chemistry labs have to be properly staffed

to many arts graduated in the media not asking the right questions