Parents of current Year 12s - are you worried your child’s uni chances might be affected by current school closures and this is something nobody is addressing yet?

[clarification]

Hi, I was talking to a friend earlier who has a son in a large sixth form college. She was telling me there is a petition going around that Year 12s are demanding universities to show tolerance and maybe lower entry grades for the 2021 cohort due to the fact that -

• this year group are missing an important term in the run up to A-levels
  

• standards of online-teaching seem to vary massively between schools
  

• some pupils will obviously not have a home environment conducive to learning.
  

I have a DS in Year 12 and the online provision from his school will probably be very good to be honest, but even so, a term is a long time to keep motivated without peers to bounce off and the more disciplined, stimulating environment that school affords. I’m also aware that some schools are so busy teaching key workers children that they won’t have the extra time or resources for real-time online teaching, so work set is likely to be projects, etc which won’t suit the less motivated. My friend was saying her DS’ college haven’t even confirmed if or how they’ll be delivering the curriculum. How can this be right?

This got me thinking - a term is a long time. In effect, A-levels are taught over 5 terms, so these students are missing 20% of their “normal” education. In light of this, I’m wondering if there might be a justified call for unis to make more flexible offers for the Sept 2021 cohort. Interested to hear any views on here!

[clarification]

I have 4 doing online education from next week. Luckily all their schools are doing a full programme in the sense that they have to log in to register at 8.25, otherwise they will be marked as late. Some sessions will be face to face with the teachers; otherwise work will be set and fit in at the end of the period. So we’re very fortunate in this respect. We had a taster week if all this before Easter and it seemed ok, but now it does feel like a long term ahead, to be honest. Luckily my eldest in Year 12 is very self-motivated, but the one in Year 10 (another very important year) needs a lot of input for his dyslexia and will need a lot if input to even get started on most of the tasks. It’s lucky I’m going to be home, otherwise god knows what would happen. Obviously many kids will be on their own at home.

But even from talking to friends, etc, I can see how online programmes vary massively between schools and it just doesn’t feel fair at all. For us, it’s a disruption, but we’ll adjust and cope. But this could effectively be a lost term for so many.

[Yorkshirehillbilly]

I think unis will find ways round it so ask for examples of work, use aptitude tests, interview more, make more contextual offers. Some already do this. Because some pupils will be having personal tuition at home so exam results are going to reflect parental income even more than they do now. I think it will affect years 10-12 with unis perhaps less willing to rely just on grades. it’s shown up weaknesses in UK system of one exam after 2 year study as countries that do continual assessment / modules / aptitude tests and ranking of pupils as standard will be far less affected. I would think year 10 and 12 will go back first, some countries are having in half a class at a time to allow for some distancing so perhaps it will be part time school and part time home study. Otherwise govt is going to come under more pressure to provide laptops / wi-fi / summer school to less advantaged. I imagine the pressure will ramp up once schools all go back next week to find solutions to make it fair otherwise all the work to widen uni participation will be undone

[titchy]

I imagine the pressure will ramp up once schools all go back next week to find solutions

Errrrrr they're not going back next week you know....

[Card1gan]

I have a DD in year 12 who wants to study Medicine. All the work experience she had planned has been cancelled (understandably) and there is no word when (or even if) the UCAT tests will take place. She believes that there will be far fewer places available for Sept 2021 entry, either because students will have chosen to defer entry or because Universities will honour their offers if they achieve the required results in the Autumn resits. She has spent a day this week researching gap year options and has decided she wants a season as a ski instructor. She can ski, but possibly not well enough to be an instructor so not sure how that will happen!

I think supporting them at this time, encouraging them to research universities and courses, do the tasks sent from school and protecting their mental health are the most important things. DD is missing her friends, BF and sport desperately, but acknowledges that everyone is in the same boat.

My youngest DD is in year 10 and is coping far better than I'd expect although I'm not sure how much work she's doing. It's been the Easter holidays so I've allowed it to slip, not sure how I'm going to get her back on track next week...

[cologne4711]

Uni places may be ok but there are lots of employers who disregard degree classifications or use them in conjunction with A level grades. In a few years nobody will remember that the class of 2021 were the ones who lost 8-14 weeks of their A level courses and whose grades were adversely affected as a result.

[cologne4711]

they're not going back next week you know

In England schools start back next week as far as I know so online/distance/whatever learning will (re)start then.

Or were you making a (rather ridiculous) point about the schools not going back physically?

[noblegiraffe]

cologne while individual results may suffer, overall the cohort of 2021 will get the same distribution of results as they would have got if there hadn’t been any disruption to their tuition.

[Gwynfluff]

@ Card1gan not a bad idea to have a gap year before medicine. It is long and intensive and it’s good to get stuff out your system. What about Chalet girl for a ski season? The ones who cook etc -assuming things get going again as it was a breeding ground for the virus in Europe. Also, get her to consider any neighbourhood volunteering etc at the moment. Medical school work experience does not need to be standing around observing in a clinical setting. Actually that’s often all you do so experience of helping, interacting with and supporting people can be more useful at interviews.

[Card1gan]

@Gwynfluff I'm not against her having a gap year before going to Uni, especially if she could save some money during the year to help with costs! I did counter offer chalet girl when she came up with ski instructor so it could be an option.

DD is very fortunate to have already completed 8 days of hospital work experience last summer. She has distributed leaflets to the 40 or so houses allocated to us in the street, but nobody has asked for help yet! DD donated blood for the first time two weeks ago and is baking 2/3 times a week for the staff working it ITU at the hospital where she did her work experience.

Nobody knows how this is going to pan out so we can only do what's possible now. I'm impressed with the resilience both DDs are showing during this time.

[clarification]

Hi again - if anyone has a DC planning to apply to Oxbridge for 2021, places are likely to be far more limited than usual due to the fact they have made the decision to guarantee deferred places for the 2020 cohort (in the event that teacher assessments do not give the grades needed) as long as these students are able to bump up a grade/s in the Autumn exams. Presumably, this will be very possible for many as Oxbridge candidates probably only miss their grades by a narrow margin, unless something very dramatic has happened.

So this could mean 30% less places for Humanities courses and a higher percentage for maths / sciences as this is the average percentage by which Cambridge over-offer apparently (not sure about Oxford but won’t be too dissimilar).

People will say, “oh don’t worry, international students won’t come,” but who wouldn’t they by next year? Lockdown has already eased in China and will soon across Europe. India and the US are less known quantities, but still. If anything, there might even be a boom year for overseas applicants, due to suppression this year.

No doubt other unis will be following suit with this policy, if they haven’t already.

I’m glad this year’s cohort have a second chance given the situation, but also I wish unis would release a statement about the impact for next year.

There was an article in the Times today implying that, in the event of schools not reopening until September, next year’s A-levels and GCSEs may happen in July to make up for this current missed term!

DS would be quite happy with teacher assessed grades, to be honest.

[mumsneedwine]

@clarification could you give me the link to that Oxbridge statement about giving deferred offers as not see it. Thanks.

[clarification]

mums - if you look on the current Oxbridge thread, people were posting a few days ago that their DC who have Cambridge conditional offers had received emails saying that if they need to take the Autumn exams, their places can be deferred to 2021 (assuming they achieve the grades obviously, but you have to expect most will, particularly as in most cases, it will probably amount to pushing an A up to an A* in a single subject). They don’t need to reapply, in other words.

Good news for this years cohort, but worrying for current Year 12s!

[mumsneedwine]

Wow. Sounds great. But not one of our students has received that email 🥺. So maybe not so bad for year 12s.

[mumsneedwine]

@clarification I am so grateful to you. Got kids to check and 3 have found email in junk and 2 hadn't even looked at emails as it's Easter. Nothing from Oxford though.

[Gatehouse77]

No, we’re not worried. There’s far too much in limbo at the moment and I don’t expect any information for a while yet.
There will have to be many modifications to all levels of education across the board (and the world).

[clarification]

It’s great news for the current Year 13s mums!

The only positive I can think of for the Year 12s is that maybe they’ll let most of the UK conditional offer holders in anyway this year to make up the numbers, given the reduced numbers of overseas students? So they might accept AAA for instance, rather than A*AA to make up the shortfall - in which case, they wouldn’t even need to take exams and defer?

Or is that clutching at straws?

Also, I don’t see the point of pushing next years’ A-levels back because the schools that have provided effective online teaching will continue to consolidate and give students the edge during that term, so the inequality won’t be reduced.

[Stellamboscha]

Year 10 and 12 and primary should be the first back anyway. Year 12 classes are small so definitely makes sense to get them back soonest.

[DeathByBoredom]

It's a small cohort this year and next year as well, so although there may be current year 13s taking places, it might not affect things too much. Fingers crossed. Difficult for Oxbridge level though, I can see that might affect chances

[MarchingFrogs]

DS2 says that there are 18 in his yr12 Eng.Lit class and about 24 in each of Maths and Physics. He also technically goes on study leave for AS levels round about when they may (or may likely may not?) be allowed back to school again, though.

[clarification]

Are they now speculating about letting the year 12s and 10s back in mid-May?

[mumsneedwine]

@clarification No. Schools will not go back until 'safe'. Otherwise teachers will die. Doubt they'll be providing us with PPE - we ran out of soap during the final week of teaching and hand sanitiser didn't exist. I really don't fancy a classroom of 30 kids, all crammed in, breathing on each other - and me. Getting to school by bus of train. It would be like an infection party. Without a happy ending.

[hobbema]

@clarification, you really should be careful with the information you post to avoid creating confusion. I am not aware of any communication from Oxford regarding offering places in 2021 for those who choose to resit in the Autumn series and havent seen anything alluding to that on the Oxbridge thread so please use your phrasing as carefully as you can. Similarly you seem to have decided that 30% of places will disappear for current year 12. Where are you getting this from ?

[mumsneedwine]

@hobbema Cambridge have sent out an email to offer holders. Not Oxford though.

[clarification]

I can’t really see how they could go back in May either. It would seem crazy to have cancelled exams in this case.

I think it will definitely affect the chances for next year’s Oxbridge applicants. Mainly because applying for Oxbridge is a much more involved process - aptitude tests; interviews; possibly sending in examples of work; etc - not to mention the achieving actual grades themselves. It’s Much more involved than just sending in the UCAS form. So to have gone through all that and then miss out by maybe just one grade, based on the assessment some teachers who you may feel don’t know you well enough or don’t like you - well, you’d be bound to take the chance to prove you could get those grades.
I think courses that involve a lot of maths may not bother perhaps, as it’s harder to keep maths up over a year, but Humanities / Arts subjects - why not? You could read the first year literature and get ahead, as well as doing some relevant work during that year.

Some colleges only take about 2 for certain subjects anyway. It’s possible some colleges may not even have spaces at all for certain subjects in 2021.

[goodbyestranger]

Quite hobbema. Is it even clear that these e-mails from Cambridge to individual students are from all colleges for all subjects?

DD4 has had no mention of any similar offer in the emails sent by her own Oxford college (most recent e-mail was Friday), nor do either of us expect her to.