Oxbridge 2020 (thread number 9)

[DadDadDad]

What a year! Just as we've all become experts (at least in our own minds ) about how to write Personal Statements, Oxford admission tests and Cambridge STEP, the complicated dance of the interview process, and how to simultaneously boost our DSs' and DDs' confidence while preparing them for the possibility of disappointment, we have a new topic to learn: statistical modelling of expected grades.

Of course, like all those previous topics, we're not in control of teacher projection and OfQual rejection, but we have this thread to support each other through the coming months.

All welcome. For the record, I have a DS with an Oxford offer for a humanities subject.

I’m a bit confused about it and so are some of the other parents at DS’s school. Apparently some teachers have said that the current work will not be taken into account, but others are requiring past papers to be completed on zoom calls. The moderation process should be ensuring that a school can’t be awarded grades that are out of synch with previous years, so I don’t think pupils at his school are at an advantage (except maybe they will be less rusty when they finally get to university). I therefore think the purpose of all this work is to help teachers with the ranking. His school is lovely but not selective and not what you would call academic (only has two Oxbridge offers), so I am a bit surprised that they are taking this approach. Still, it gets him out of bed in the morning which is a good thing.

From what I can see, schools are varying widely in their approach and, despite guidelines, many are asking for work to be completed or doing further internal assessments after the March cut-off date.

Schools will not have to declare any assessments after the cut-off date, so I can’t see what there is to stop them really. Evidence will be variable between schools and between subjects anyway. Schools can use online assessments this week as an extra layer of up-to-date evidence, perhaps to distinguish between very similar or borderline candidates. Who would be the wiser? They can absorb this extra evidence and then combine it with other data to present it as teacher assessment as of and up to the 21st March.

@pa1oma no they can't. They can not use any evidence after schools closed. OFQUAL have made this very clear. Schools that do will be heavily punished if found out. Anyone could be doing the work at home !!

I am not convinced it says they CANT use it. I think it says that it should be treated with caution (so if little Johnny goes from a C to A*), and also that pupils shouldn't be disadvantaged if they don't submit work.

Invigilated exams get around the potential of cheating/someone else doing the work...so are fully admissible.

I think it's being used as evidence of progression, to differentiate rankings and to determine borderline grades....some schools are happy with the data and some are not.

This year schools are not being judged on results so that takes away the temptation to inflate grades. Grades are being moderated to make sure they are in line with expectations (so a cohort of C grade GCSE students in a school which normally gets B and C's can't suddenly give everyone an A*).

Basically I think it makes zero difference nationally if some continue with work and some don't. It will and can only affect rankings and one or two borderline candidates. It's not worth worrying about.

Please ignore bolding 😁

From OFQUAL

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachmentdata/file/880612/Summerr2020gradessforGCSEEASAAlevelguidanceeforteacherssstudentsparentssFINALUPDATEDD21APR2020.pdf#page5

Should schools and colleges be setting students new
work to inform the grade they submit?
There is no requirement to set additional mock exams or homework tasks for the purposes of determining a centre assessment grade, and no student should be disadvantaged if they are unable to complete any work set after schools were closed. Where additional work has been completed after schools and colleges were closed on 20 March, Heads of Centre should exercise caution where that evidence suggests a change in performance. In many cases this is likely to reflect the circumstances and context in which the work is done.

So one of my students has done no work since shutdown. Should I mark him down ? Because I know his parents are sick and he is caring for younger siblings. OFQUAL have been quite clear about the issues of using data from home as evidence. How do you prove a student sat a 'mock' and not their Oxford professor mum ? If the results are in line with usual student data then I expect it will be fine. But if Johnny suddenly states acing work and previously hadn't then I think it would be ridiculous for a school to think they can get away with an A*. I have already seen companies offering to 'support' students through assessments.

Sorry @bpisok cross posted. It'sthe 'use caution' bit that means 'don't do it or we will not be happy'. Otherwise teachers could submit lots of dirk looking like it's from students to say oh look, all my class now get 100% so they can all have an A*.

I would hope that an Oxford professor mum would have the nous and moral compass not to cheat on her kid's behalf.

DD4 and her entire cohort incl all Oxbridge offerees have been set no work since shutdown, not a scrap. She's currently paddleboarding at the beach.

I agree.
If Johnny goes from a C to a A then there's clearly an issue.
If all evidence puts Johnny at borderline B/C then a new mock could be the clincher

How do you invigilate? Depends on the type of school. DD merrily retaking a mock as I type (borderline A/B along with 3 others all of whom are retaking and are fighting for the ranking). Currently on the kitchen, exam paper put on the school site at 9am and work to finish at 11.50 (she has extra time). Camera on at all times (background can't be blurred), camera to show the environment and floor before start, must sit with back to the door so you can see anyone coming in. Screen shared so that typing can be seen. Not sure whether it's recorded or not.

Basically all very doable so long as they have tech.

As for Johnny's parents being sick, as a teacher you would make a judgment without supplementary info. What happens in a 'real' exam where Johnnys parents are sick?

mumsneedwine can you give me some advice? I am not an Oxford professor, far from it, but my DC has asked school to set extra work for one of DC's subjects.

DC needs AAA to secure University conditional offer. Two As are likely secure but one is more likely to be a B under this system. One of DC's three subjects (Scottish system of Advanced Highers) is what is referred to here as a 'crash' subject - this means you are doing the subject without the foundational prior year. My DC's teacher left before Easter, the two elements of coursework - which equate to 40% - of the subject even though completed are not being included in the grade assessment - one (15%) is an essay, the other was a speaking assessment (25%) - subject is a language - examined by an external assessor before lockdown.

DC's teacher has left, coursework is not being included so I am guessing what will be included is DC's homework between Sept and February and mock. There will be no Autumn exams in Scotland. Teacher, who has left, said DC was definitely on track for a B but an A was in DC's potential. DC's worry is the conditional offer requires AAA and estimate in Feb was B so school will allocate this - in this situation what would you advise other than ask for extra work to be set?

Yes, I agree with bpisok. I very much doubt any school will treat online exams with the same weight as those done under timed conditions, for all the reasons stated above. No student is going to go from a C to an A over one online test. If a student has been ill or has family who have been ill / other mitigating circumstances, then obviously you make this clear, as in any other circumstances. But nevertheless, it’s up-to-date info that may be given weight in the same way as other topic tests etc and may be relevant in borderline scenarios. Schools have only been told to exercise caution and I’m sure they will.

@tava63 my advice would to contact her chosen University and explain all that. Some Unis have an extenuating circumstances form but all of them will accept that what has happened to your DD will have effected her grades. If you message me the Uni I might already have the link to the form as we have done things like this is the past. It's a horrible time. I have a year 13 too so I get a double wammy as parent and teacher. Nothing is fair about all this. As a parent I want to scream. As a teacher I will do my best by all my students to try and ensure they get the same as they would have. Only 280 GCSE students to worry about 😳

Since the exams should merely confirm all the work that's gone before, I don't have an issue with these assessed grades at all. I'd have loved them for myself - especially in good weather, assuming no family concerns about health.

Yes exactly. Whether the schools use extra internal exams or not, they can only distribute the grades within certain boundaries based on that schools performance in the various subjects across the years. Maybe it’s just extra evidence of “uplift” for some students or confirmation of grades for others.

Extenuating circumstances would need to come from the school via the exams officer to the uni, not direct from the candidate to the uni.

Thanks mumsneedwine and goodbyestranger. DC did write to the University (but didn't fill in any form) and they replied that if DC got allocated AAB DC would be considered as narrowly missing the condition.

I think that is a good suggestion goodbyestranger i.e. to contact school and ask for them to write to the Uni. We don't understand what the processes are for asking for extenuating circumstances to be considered or how to navigate a "narrowly missed conditions" situation - and don't want to muck it up. It is excruciating because DC attained all As (8) in the Scottish National 5s (similar to GCSEs) and all As (5) for Scottish Highers and the A that is at risk at Scottish Advanced Higher is because DC needed to have coursework and the exam to prove that DC could meet the academic challenge of taking a 'crash' subject. Past performance suggests DC would have pulled it out of the bag again but there is no criteria for that it seems in the Scottish Qualifications Authority's (SQA) guidelines.

Extenuating circumstances forms can come from the student and/or the school. Both is best. But you've already emailed so that's good. I'm afraid it's now sit back and wait. And hope this mess is sorted and the kids can move on and forget about it all. Fingers crossed

My understanding is that the extenuating circumstances are going to be applied at school level this year though. I will try to find the page in the guidance/consultation documentation and come back with the section/page.

Some schools will do it for whole classes. But students can do it too ! Here is Bristol's one (happened to have it as was sending to a student).

www.bristol.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/after-you-apply/your-application/extenuating-circumstances/

@Tava63 the standard oxford offer for languages is AAB at Advanced Higher I think? AAB In AH usually equates to AAA level.

My son's law offer was AAB at Advanced Higher last year, whereas the standard A level offer was AAA. He took a crash AH in RMPS (never studied subject before bar core RE) and his teacher left for maternity leave before Easter with a third of the course untaught. He was left to self teach the remainder of the course.

He called the college off the record and asked whether they would take this into consideration. They said they would but the request would need to come from his centre and before the results were released. He decided not to ask his school to put in a evidence as he felt if he couldn't get the grades on his own merits, he didn't deserve a place.

In the end everything worked out as he got three As.

Best of luck to your DC.

mumsneedwine any plea for mitigating circumstances is of qualitatively different value if it comes through the school.

@@goodbyestranger not necessarily (read the Bristol form - it comes from the student). We do a few of these every year as things happen. We will always support a student to do one too but would always suggest emailing admissions tutors as well as they are the ones with the power. One student has just sent this form off as had a nightmare last few months before we closed but had hoped to make it all up before exams. Not to be so we suggested letting Unis know.
Anyway, hope everyone is getting on on, whatever they are doing. We have year 13s doing all sorts, in supermarkets, as HCAs, as community helpers and many volunteering. Am proud of all of them. Year 12 are working hard- my titration lesson meant I had to go into school which was actually really lovely. Schools are open !!

I have to disagree. Forms are available for student communication but it's always vastly preferable for the school to communicate directly, even if the student adds a supplementary.

@goodbyestranger never mind us disagreeing 😊.