Environmental science type degrees

[Bimkom]

Was having a browse on UCAS subjects for DD (who still has GCSEs to go, but has started thinking a bit about A Levels,). I saw Zoology as a subject, and Veterinary Science and Geography, but couldn't see anything that corresponded to some sort of Environmental science. Are there no degrees in that subject, or are they grouped under what seemed to be the most closely related - eg Zoology and Geography? DD is interested in animals and in conservation and habitat and nature. At the moment thinking that A Levels will be Biology and Geography and don't know. I just wanted to make sure that we covered all the bases where she might want to go, so we don't get to choosing a degree and finding that she doesn't have the necessary prerequisites. Interestingly UCAS seemed to suggest that Geography was not absolutely necessary for a Geography degree, but that Zoolology or Vet Science would require Biology and possibly another science or maths.

But I just wanted to get a feel for what else is out there roughly in this domain, eg environmental conservation type degrees, if any, so we could look at their A Level requirements.

It’s here:

www.ifs.org.uk/uploads/R167-The-impact-of-undergraduate-degrees-on-lifetime-earnings.pdf

But I’d still say study what you’re really interested in, don’t pick something you’re ambivalent about just because you think you’ll get a good financial return in the long term.

Environmental studies probably won’t pay big bucks but opportunities for travel and making a difference in the ground may be more important.

As DD1 did languages I found that outcome odd. It does show, as I suspected, the uk really does not value linguists. DD converted to law though and earns a lot

She’s not working as a linguist so she’s not valued as a linguist, her value is being a lawyer.

Why are you surprised?

I said it appears to show the uk does not value linguists. The table is about degrees taken. That’s the obvious conclusion. I didn’t say DD wasn’t valued as a barrister. However in order to be a barrister, a first degree in an academic subject is usually required so MFL ticks this box. Academic linguists are well placed to convert to law if they wish. It also follows that she did what she enjoyed and what she was good at.

On these findings, women taking MFLs are doomed to low wages. I’m not sure why this has happened. Lower than anyone we are told are in lower paid jobs. Eg nurses, agriculture, teachers etc. As many MFL grads could be teachers or doing any number of well paid jobs I’m confused as to how earnings for women are so low with this degree. It is an anomaly.

Hello. I work in environmental engineering.,
Before choosing a Env Science degree, be sure to really look at the content and professional accreditation of the degree. “Environmental Science” is a huge umbrella which can cover anything from zoology, geochemistry, conservation, land management etc. I have work for the Environment Agency as a Technical Specialist for 15 years. Most of my technical colleagues ha e fairly general degree (Geology, Geography, Zoology, Ecology Countryside Management, Civil Engineering are probably the most common) and a more specialist MSc; or one of the EA sponsored degrees or apprenticeships here.

I guess this is why the flood defences at Ironbridge buckled? Engineering is best done by qualified chartered engineers. It clearly wasn’t designed properly. I did suggest engineering at the start but the op doesn’t think DD will do physics.

Oh let me guess, the temporary flood defences at Ironbridge weren't designed by a chartered structural engineer and therefore they weren’t designed properly?

Don’t be ridiculous. The EA has plenty of chartered engineers that know exactly what they are doing when it comes to designing both permanent and temporary flood defences.

And by the way, I am a CEng without a maths or physics A level.

Good for you. In this house DH is FIStructE, FICE and one F I forget that’s Highways. It still buckled ! It wasn’t competently designed. Who designed it? Anyone designing structures to do a job that hasn’t got Maths A level is a worry. What are you CEng in?

Civil Engineering and Structural Engineering degrees at decent universities require the A levels I suggested. Env Sci is different.

CEng in Civils. I didn’t need A level maths for my civils MEng and it was straightforward to complete the additional required modules. Both my science / engineering degrees are from RG universities before you ask.

And I’ve designed a lot of structures, from dams to high rise buildings to motorway structures, plus gone on to more specialised projects. Nothing fallen down or accidentally blown up as yet.

So can you tell me which RG university right now doesn’t require maths A level for MEng undergrad civil engineering? Also do you think not having maths A level in this day and age is good prep for civil engineering? Personally I think saying to young people that maths isn’t needed is not good advice. I prefer to give honest advice about the best subjects to take. Most DC, without maths A level, will struggle or have to do a lot of catch up modules. Many would find this onerous and not consider applying.

^
I guess this is why the flood defences at Ironbridge buckled? Engineering is best done by qualified chartered engineers. It clearly wasn’t designed properly. I did suggest engineering at the start but the op doesn’t think DD will do physics^

In my post of 10:18 29 Feb, you’ll find that I mentioned that Civil Engineering is one of the more common degrees held by my EA colleagues. At a particular level of seniority a number of roles require BEng, MEng, CEng, MICE. We also have framework consulting engineers we use across England - people like Arup, Atkins, Jacobs and JBA, all well established, credible multidisciplinary engineers.

I mentioned the range of fields of my colleagues’ degrees to illustrate the range of work we do under the umbrella of “Environmental Science”, and the provide insight to the diversity of what Env Sci means, so that no one heads of down a degree path that is unexpected. The EA obviously have appropriately qualified people in the right roles.

I didn’t say engineers don’t need maths. I’m just saying that in my case I didn’t have A level maths (only the equivalent of AS) and because of the route I took it didn’t stop me becoming chartered.

I did write MEng though when it should have been MSc Eng, so apologies if that misled you. It was a maths heavy course so I just had to get up to speed with it.

I was mostly replying to your comment about the Ironbridge flood defences buckling because they hadn’t been designed properly by chartered engineers - which is nonsense, as chartered engineers are employed throughout the EA and are no doubt very capable of designing structures within their speciality. Perhaps the massive spending cuts over the last few years plus record flood levels might have more to do with it?

Anyway, this is just derailing as OP’s DD isn’t interested in engineering.

No, more's the pity. I would love her to go down the engineering route, but it is not my life, and there are some battles that I know I would not win (and probably should not win, for her own healthy self development, even if I am right). It is encouraging to hear about people who didn't take something like maths A levels and then, when they realised what they really wanted to do, ended up picking up the maths and doing it. I am sure it is much harder to do it that way, but it is good that those avenues are not completely shut. It is very difficult to pursuade a teenager as to why maths is really important when she just can't see it. But realistically we need to work with her interests and what she perceives as being important and worthwhile, as I am sure she will get better A grades in those subjects than in a subject she is dragooned into.

We rarely have engineering failures in this country. It’s rare to see modern design fail like this. I was being flippant about who designed it (and it might have been purchased off the shelf) but the EA are not held in the greatest regard. Even if the didn’t design it, they commissioned something which was not effective. However environmental goalposts are moving at the moment so perhaps they didn’t meet their own standards (the ones others have to
meet)?

You are of course correct that DD cannot be dragooned into maths. It makes life easier for scientists though. That’s undeniable and its true for the best Env Sci courses too. Away from school she might feel differently about maths and that would help.

My DC initially looked at Marine Biology and this seemed a really good mix of science and practical work. We went on a few open days to places like Newcastle, Southampton and Plymouth. They all have great facilities and great kit - research ships, boats and opportunities to learn to dive, cool field trips etc. You could tailor the degrees towards oceanography or the biological side or both and, as more than one place pointed out, if we are going to save the planet it is going to start with people that know the oceans. So there should be plenty of employment opportunities. One possible drawback is that Marine Biology centres can be slightly off campus for obvious reasons. In the end my DC decided to go for Zoology as they realised that there interest in biology / wildlife was not restricted to the sea. DC waiting for their notional 2020 A level grades to see if they have got in to their Uni of choice now. One other factor with Zoology is that everywhere that the DC looked into there was a common first year with the other Biological Science degrees so there was still room to move if deciding to go for a broader degree later on. Throughout the remaining years the difference between Zoology degree and the rest were about 3-5 options a year.