Environmental science type degrees

[Bimkom]

Was having a browse on UCAS subjects for DD (who still has GCSEs to go, but has started thinking a bit about A Levels,). I saw Zoology as a subject, and Veterinary Science and Geography, but couldn't see anything that corresponded to some sort of Environmental science. Are there no degrees in that subject, or are they grouped under what seemed to be the most closely related - eg Zoology and Geography? DD is interested in animals and in conservation and habitat and nature. At the moment thinking that A Levels will be Biology and Geography and don't know. I just wanted to make sure that we covered all the bases where she might want to go, so we don't get to choosing a degree and finding that she doesn't have the necessary prerequisites. Interestingly UCAS seemed to suggest that Geography was not absolutely necessary for a Geography degree, but that Zoolology or Vet Science would require Biology and possibly another science or maths.

But I just wanted to get a feel for what else is out there roughly in this domain, eg environmental conservation type degrees, if any, so we could look at their A Level requirements.

Oh and just a note of caution... My degree meant I did all the geography degree as a third of my course and then a significant amount extra. It was 9-6everyday except Wednesday afternoon

Swansea offers a great biosciences degree or environmental geosciences degree.

Geography, Biology and Maths would be perfect A levels.

Thanks for all the advice, really useful. Doubt she could be pursuaded into engineering, or a physics A level. Sounds like Biology and Geography would be good choices for A Level, and it is really a question as to whether she can be pursuaded to do Chemistry or Maths (I just wish the maths teacher was less horrible. She is a competent teacher, in the sense that DD does learn from her, but DD hates her with a passion for the nasty put downs, and is too scared to ask her when she doesn't understand for fear of being told she is stupid or even interact with her on a basic level - I have to email her if there needs to be any communication. And if DD was not negative enough about maths, this is really not helping. Science teacher is lovely, makes such a difference in terms of DD's attitude to the subject).

Maths is so helpful with any science degree. However with geography it doesn’t matter so much. The BSc Geography degrees are leaning more towards the environment and this might be the way forward.

I also think you should speak to the teacher. She appears to be a barrier to your DD reaching her full potential. Isn’t there another teacher? My DD was put in a lower set for maths but got the best teacher! She achieved a B a few years ago. Being in the higher set was a disaster. Sometimes they need to gel with a teacher.

A “B” was hugely above expectation by the way!

DD won't let me speak to the teacher. She is scared that if I do she is likely to be victimised (apparently happens, according to DD) and doesn't want any attention drawn to her. We have seriously considered trying to fail setting tests so that she can be dropped to Set 2, but it is difficult to do that accurately (when she tried to fail a setting test in a language, by missing out a whole page, she still didn't get low enough marks to get put down to set 2). The solution at the moment is that when she doesn't understand, she comes and asks me, and I teach her what she needs.

Honestly! Do you always do what your DD wants! Sometimes DC don’t get faux grumpy teachers. You should talk to the Head of year. Why not address this? Dropping down a set might be the best thing. You won’t know if you run away from discussing it. Don’t tell DD! Just make an appointment with the head of year and explore what can be done! Otherwise you are not helping her achieve as much as she could either.

And don’t support the notion of failing tests. That’s a bit childish!

@Bubblesbuddy The reason I listen to DD on this, is that we have experienced the school with DS, and know that one cannot just drop sets when one wants to. The school fights tooth and nail against students doing that - there was a boy in DS's year group who was desperate to drop out of Set 1 in English, hated the teacher and basically got a detention every day because of the tensions, Mother pushed and pushed for him to drop a set. Mother was head of the PTA and very involved, and should have had lots of access if anyone had (and had had three previous boys in the school who had done well), but they still resisted. Mother got the boy tutoring elsewhere because he was learning nothing from the teacher due to the tensions. But as the boy didn't fail the setting test (mother convinced because of the private tutoring), she couldn't get him put down, despite the obvious evidence of the detentions that the existing English arrangements was not working for him. Not surprisingly he went elsewhere after his GCSEs and his mother is still very angry. And we had an even more surreal experience with DS. DS was not getting on with a teacher in set 1 (not a GCSE subject, but an enrichment) and was misbehaving and disruptive. Head of subject in this case was lovely and very supportative, but couldn't just drop DS down a set. Head of subject and DS agreed it was for the best, so head of subject ran a setting test just for sets 1 and 2, which DS was instructed to fail, but subtly enough that it wasn't as though there was nothing on the paper, so that he could be put down! ie even the head of subject couldn't find a way around the absoluteness of the setting test in a non GCSE subject!
The problem is that there are too many "middle class mums" in the school meaning that the school feels that there is a constant push for their little darling to be put up a set, or moved here or there, so the school's response is very much to push the parents away. In many other ways the school is very good - it often picks up on these things itself, and teachers we have found disasterous are often gone by the next year - but they will not listen to parents, and always form a wall if things are raised by parents. Both my DC (and the parents I know) worked out very early on that parent involvement made and makes things more difficult for themselves and their kids. The reason that the drop of set above worked was because DS (who is not shy) negotiated this with head of subject himself without my involvement. My involvement would not have been welcomed and would have made things more difficult.
In the case of said maths teacher - according to my DD they all hate her. Indeed one of the issues for my DD in trying to fail a maths setting test is that would mean that one of the DC in Set 2 would then be pushed up into set 1, and have to deal with this teacher. My DD doesn't feel that she can engineer this when she has a mother who can teach her maths, and the other poor victim likely wouldn't.
The problem I think is that it is so hard to find good maths teachers. The previous two maths teachers DD had in Set 1 were, in DDs view, incompetent, which is why I am used to teaching her maths, I have been doing it for the last couple of years. And certainly I found her not difficult to teach, but not having picked up anything much in class. And then this one comes along, and at least DD is learning (although she has a tendency to throw the hardest problems at them from the beginning of a topic, no build up from easy problems. ie she teaches the material and then gives them what I think are level 8/9 problems without the easy ones first - one of the things we do is look on Seneca or somewhere for some easier problems on the topic, to build up confidence, before we tackle the Hegerty maths super hard questions that are set as homework).

environment.leeds.ac.uk/see
www.esc.cam.ac.uk/join-us/prospective-undergraduates
www.harper-adams.ac.uk/courses/undergraduate/201001/wildlife-conservation-and-environmental-management?gclid=Cj0KCQiAqNPyBRCjARIsAKA-WFwrFgK93q_3CNqs_Z7J_r7qaaZQpT1xyDnICUMPAyLeBzJFQ5Y7okEaAr-EEALw_wcB

What about geology, OP?

Bangor do some fantastic conservation degrees.

Hi VanguardSix - while she is interested in geology as well, I don't think she wants to specialise that narrowly - her heart if anything is with the animals. But there aren't realistically a lot of animal jobs (how many zookeepers do you need), and she is not that keen on zoos anyway, more interested in animal conservation, and more general wildlife conservation (although she is a complete animal geek - she can rattle of details about just about any animal, bird, insect, you can mention, and is our local - what is that in our garden, expert). Quite happy with the idea of researching in Antarctica for six months for example, or in the jungle. Not sure how practical any of this is, really. Understands it is a wholistic thing, and interested in the whole. Originally didn't want to do a Vet degree because she doesn't want to spend her time giving injections to other people's pets, although she met a friend of ours (only person I know who is even vaguely in this area) who went the Vet route into frog research, so can see that might be one way to get towards the areas that interest her. Wants to something that feels practical and hands on and that will help.

If she wants research positions, she will need top level qualifications, not just enthusiasm. You have to earn the right to go to Antarctica or take part in other research. You could see if any universities routinely take students abroad to study on wildlife projects.

I think she is confused about “hands on” and scientific research. There are few well paid jobs in conservation. Many such people might be employed by charities such as the National Trust who require people to manage their land holdings. If she’s talking about animals and wildlife, then again, charities are very much involved in this with volunteers. None of these offer much in wages but they do offer job satisfaction. After 6 years at university, vets get the latter but not the former!

I have been to wildlife camps in Africa and obviously there are employment opportunities. I have also been to wildlife lodges and research stations in the Amazon. There are research scientists there but many of the lodges employ indigenous guides. So foreign wildlife experts are not there in great numbers.

I would not say she shouldn’t follow her interests but there is a need to be realistic. Lots of people I have met working with wildlife have been highly qualified and are doing research for doctorates, for example. So she needs to think how this interest can be achieved.

The school obviously isn’t helping. It sounds dictatorial and not acting in the best interests of DC. However a qualified maths teacher is a bonus these days!

@bubblesbuddy, thanks for all the advice. Truth is that at this stage I don't think she knows exactly what she wants, just a sense of where here interests lie. And full fledged research into university courses is several years away. It is more just making sure she is not doing anything silly in terms of A levels (and making sure she works, at the very least, on the GCSE subjects that she will need for those A Levels) at this stage. That said, the Environmental Science link for Leeds is a good thought - thanks @EwwSprouts. Leeds is RG and might be a sensible aspirational choice, and i could see that website pushing a lot of her buttons.

Cambridge seems maybe a bit too aspirational, although maybe I am underrating her. She may be Set 1 material, but she is not top, top of Set 1. She is young in her year, I suppose she might mature, but I can't see us putting her through the Cambridge hoops given where she is now.

I agree that chemistry would be a good third subject. DD took biology, chemistry and geography A levels, and found that there was quite a lot of chemistry in biology.

When talking to her friends after one of her biology exams she discovered that those who hadn't taken chemistry couldn't answer some of the questions, but she could because the topic had been covered in chemistry.

If that interested in conservation then could consider ecology degree or... economics. Yes, really, economics. There are lots of economists working in env. conservation / valuation. Big team of them at Newcatle Univ school of Env science. Politics (and informing policy) does actually go very well with env. science, too.

Any recommendations for an ecology degree. I think Economics is out of the question given that she is going to refuse to do maths for A level.

To be honest, I would, at the moment, swerve ecology and narrow focus degrees. She might change her mind and wished she had studied a broader spectrum of topics. These degrees are mostly offered by non RG. Southampton being one RG that does offer it but mostly RG, such as Leeds, Liverpool, Birmingham, Nottingham and others appear to be offering Environmental Science. (Very quick check on What Uni) Ecology is s sub set of that really. You would need to see what they say about maths and whether it’s desirable or not too. I think the more you narrow down the degree, the fewer jobs or further training opportunities match the qualifications.

As she is young, I think, she has time to reflect on this. In general RG educated DC do better overall and she will need to figure out how much earning means to her. A more general undergrad course is often best as it keeps more doors open. So, if the maths is not going to happen, then Biology, Chemistry snd Geography might be the answer.

Have a look at some of the Southampton Uni courses - Oceanography might interest her? Also Ecology and Conservation, Environmental Geoscience, Environmental Science, Environmental Management with Business? Might give you some ideas at least.

I’m now going to change what I said earlier. A new report by the IFS says women who attend lower end RG universities don’t do better financially than those who attend non RG. The elite RG universities are different. As are the elite courses. Just read the new report.

But not everyone is financially driven? I think it’s more important to study something you enjoy and have a genuine interest in.

According to that IFS report, you’d avoid languages, English or biology if money was your only object.

As DD1 did languages I found that outcome odd. It does show, as I suspected, the uk really does not value linguists. DD converted to law though and earns a lot. Other linguists we know did the same.

It definitely depends what you want out of life. I do agree it’s not all about money but most people want to earn enough to have a decent independent life after university and having to live with parents for 10 years after graduating because they cannot afford rent won’t make some DC happy. Low earnings and living at home do make some people happy though. Of course it’s really difficult to know what aims young people have when they are 16/17 but it’s generally acknowledged that buying a property is harder now. So some DC will need to think about income even if their heart says something else.

Do you have a link to this report?