Working P/T and studying medicine?

[Monica53]

Hi
Our Dd in first year of medicine - bumpy first year ! with various things and being 6hr drive away from home - however summer holidays are looming and myself and her dad are dropping hints that she needs to get some sort of paid work as for 3/4 months we can’t support her and also for when she’s back at Uni trying a few hrs paid work for experience also to help her finances as her words I can’t afford to be a student 😳🥴. I’ve known and heard of med students working and studying so it is doable?

Mine is the only state school kid among her closet friends - and the only one from the SE 😊. Think you'll get arrogant people everywhere from all social backgrounds. One of DDs friends went to Eton and he is adorable.

I do agree about the fear of failing, which I don't think will ever go away. But better to get a job and not have the time than not have anything planned. Uni summers are such a luxury and shame to not do something worthwhile, be that working or travelling. Or learning a new skill.

Hi
We’re from NE and our Dd is at Med school in South West England - went to a normal school and we are not in any shape or form a well off family. I believe if someone wants to do or progress in a certain area, if they put the work in etc....good luck to them! Far to
much putting people in boxes - anyone can do what they want if they’re willing to put the work in - money isn’t everything!

Wise words indeed. Dream big, work hard and you can achieve anything.

Medical students come disproportionately from advantaged families.

There's another reason for this not mentioned here.
My understanding is that medical courses look more than most at work experience.
If I, for example, had a dc who wanted to do medicine, I could arrange all sorts. I have relatives who are doctors, I have several friends who do various medical careers including surgeons and consultants and would be very happy to take my child (because they know them) to show them the works etc. I could arrange several sets of fantastic looking work experience without really having to think hard.

Someone who's coming from a disadvantaged background is less likely to have these connections, so immediately can be at a disadvantage on application. Yes there are opportunities out there, but much harder to find if you don't have the connections already there.

That is true too. We know no one medical so DD has to fight to get work experience. But medical schools did stress you didn't need much and they really liked part time jobs. She had v little and still made it. But so many of her friends have medics in the family.

@mumsneedwine I also wonder how many potential medics from disadvantaged backgrounds are put off simply because they can't find anywhere that will give them any experience. That alone gives them the idea that medicine is not for them, because if they can't even get work experience they've no chance.

Fortunately lots of Unis are doing outreach to those kids and offering summer schools and work experience just for them. It's not perfect but does help level the playing field a bit. Mine had a week at GP and 3 days in a hospital (on a scheme like mentioned) and that was enough. Mostly she was asked about her part time job. She is so enjoying medicine and seems to have grown in confidence after the initial imposter feeling that she wasn't good enough. The confidence of some of her classmates was a bit overwhelming but then she realised she was just as capable as them and sometimes slightly more so 😇.

A lot of junior doctors I meet have had jobs at med school - either just in holidays or in term time as well.

Care work is common (and actually really useful depending which area of medicine you go into) as you can do it bank or agency.

But have met doctors who have done all sorts of other jobs - bar work, call centre, chicken factory, you name it.

As a doctor myself, I don't mean to be harsh, but she needs to toughen up. If she can't cope with med school and a part-time job, she'll never cope with the physical & emotional demands of being a junior doctor. You will be doing her a favour to stick to your guns and insist on her working.

I agree with PPs suggesting that HCA work is ideal because, if you do it through an agency/bank, it's totally flexible. You don't have to work when course work is heavy or you have exams, then can do more when it's quiet. I found it better than most typical student jobs for that reason.

Hmm is your dad coping well at Med school? For some, the gear change from a-levels to medicine is brutal. There is a lot of different subjects, some lecturers/consultants were brutal (although I do think this has changed from when I was studying) and pressure is high. There’s no point her burning out in the first few years.

FWIW, my parents were abroad and couldn’t afford to give me much financial support. I bar worked evenings, medical private clinic receptionist Saturdays and ad-hoc medical secretary/typist weekdays and full time summer holidays. So yeah, you can work. Did I get the most out of medical school, either socially or academically? Nope.

@MrsNoah2020 I’m not sure that’s particularly helpful or true anymore. Juniors nowadays are a lot more protected and have a seemingly disproportionate number of ‘rest days’ with exception reporting encouraged. Gone are the days of stretches of three weeks of being in with no off days working late more often than not.

The ideal job I can think of for your DD is as a HCA, and if she can get"sleeper shifts" in a nursing home then that would be ideal, as you are there incase you are needed but you also get some (not always a lot) sleep so frees up her day times. Also you get a higher rate of pay and the shifts generally run from about 9/10pm through to 7/8am .

Juniors nowadays are a lot more protected and have a seemingly disproportionate number of ‘rest days’ with exception reporting encouraged. Gone are the days of stretches of three weeks of being in with no off days working late more often than not.

True and yet they bitch and whinge so much more than we did when we had it much harder. Anyway, not to take it off topic and back to other work, as everyone said through the nursing home idea out there. It’s also good for learning how to deal with patients of this demographic.

True and yet they bitch and whinge so much more than we did when we had it much harder.

I left that bit out...

Blimey, hope my DD has more supportive doctors to work for when she's 'bitching and winging' about how easy it is to be a junior doctor these days. Because we all know the NHS is so well staffed now and F1s all spend their days eating cookies.

Have you seen the Yorkshire men sketch ? Back in my day .....

mumsneedwine , yes while it may be more understaffed it’s not at your DD’s level. The reality is that juniors these days are more supported and have it a lot easier than we did. You seem to refute this but it’s definitely true. We just sucked it up and got on with it in resignation that it was what it was and ‘this too shall pass (if I don’t drop dead first)’. Juniors these days, not so much ......

I don't refute it at all. I know hours were ridiculous and treatment poor. But that's doesn't mean today's junior doctors don't work hard and they deserve not to be told they are bitching and winging. They are working with the conditions they have. There is a reason so many quit or comit suicide and I think senior doctors attitudes could help. Just read 'It's going to hurt'. The people the NHS don't look after well are their staff.Yes you had it tougher, so maybe support making life better for the next generation, not complaining because they are tired too.

And as a student how many lecturer strikes did you have to contend with ? Because my DD is now dealing with 6 weeks of it just this academic year. They still have to know their stuff but self teaching a lot if it.

Oh and finally. She'll be saddled with nearly £60,000 of debt in order to become a doctor. So not everything has improved !!!

Yes, yes, we know, she is really badly done by and has a really hard time of it. Poor thing. Will leave the tea and sympathy for you as that’s what mums are for .

Yes, she may have student debt but it’s not that bad and considerably less than one of my kids has for another profession. She also has the benefit of a more equal playing field and opportunities though. For example count how many orthopaedic specialists my age are women, you probably won’t need any hands. There’s a hell of a lot that’s improved for your DD in addition to working conditions. Stuff they now take for granted. I do agree that there is an issue though with increased suicide and mental health issues as the landscape has changed in regards to fortitude and resilience etc so they do need to be treated differently with this in mind.

So let's agree that doctors have it tough. And try and make things better. Not minimise the stress that today's medics are under, just because it used to be worse. DD doesn't ask for tea and sympathy and works her backside off to minimise her debt, not having rich parents to help her out. She has paid work on top of study, not something many of her contemporaries have to deal with.

But she does appreciate support from senior staff and has yet to be told she's bitching or winging.
And what profession takes more than 5 year at Uni ? Just curious. DD has friends doing law and architecture and they worked out she'll have more debt at the end.

Juniors nowadays are a lot more protected and have a seemingly disproportionate number of ‘rest days’ with exception reporting encouraged. Gone are the days of stretches of three weeks of being in with no off days working late more often than not

I would far rather train in the way we did, as tough as it was, than be today's juniors, with perpetual shift work and no connection to a firm or their own patients.

There are a few things different in med school nowadays I think, that make things a bit more challenging during term. There is more modularisation so there can be exams every 6-8 weeks. I studied med when this was introduced. You feel like you're on a hamster wheel.
She may be feeling nervous about the prospect of a resit, which can be very likely in med school.
When I was further on in med school I had clinical ward hours from 7.30 to lunchtime, lectures from 2-5 or 6. Then study afterwards for exams. It's a pretty gruelling course.
Summertime work is possible though and I did do that.
Also I hate the current trend towards negging young doctors now and going on about how we had it much harder etc. It's a challenging career at all levels, always was, always will be.

DD has exams every 6 weeks and then a whole bunch of them at the end of the year. She works (& plays) hard and is enjoying it, but strikes not helping with neurology at the moment. I'm not sure brains are a self-teach subject ☹️

Oh give over mumsneedwine. On an anonymous forum we are allowed to chuckle at the differences and expectations that juniors have now compared to when we were at a similar stage. Regardless of my actual opinion of the ridiculous expectation that seniors hold their hands through every patient encounter, I will drag my ass down to A&E at three in the morning and smile and reassure and walk them through something. Then at eight they get to go to bed whereas I have a full day of theatre/clinic ahead of me.

I wholeheartedly support the idea that juniors shouldn’t be beasted as we were or made to put up with the rampant sexism that we had to. However we have swung too far the other way where we are doing our very junior doctors a disservice by pretending that they can’t do without a senior peering over their shoulder for the first four years. All it does is make being a registrar that much harder (with much more liability attached) and churns out consultants that have a much greater reduced level of experience. These juniors are professionals and we should treat them as such, not like barely capable teenagers.