Which degree for accountancy?

[MadamBuxton]

Just planning ahead for my DS who is in year 12 and starting to think about degree choice. He thinks he'll probably want to train as a Chartered Accountant (probably in audit) after university but isn't sure about degree choice.

I am a CA myself and the advice always used to be that you shouldn't do an accountancy/business/finance type degree because firms often prefer a 'pure' subject (STEM in particular) for the transferable skills. However, through my job I've come across quite a few cv's recently for newly qualified CA's who did a finance-related degree then trained with a Big 4 or other firm so maybe my knowledge is out of date?

I'd be particularly interested in your criteria and preferences if you are involved in recruitment...

Agree with PP that he should look into the apprenticeship schemes at the Big 4. I work for one, and we take a lot on at that stage who are keen to be accountants, bypassing the need for a degree altogether (and getting great on-the-job experience).

Another CA here . I would say maths A level useful to show you are numerate is useful . And then anything but an accountancy degree . Languages always go down well , history , PPE , natural sciences anything really . In my experience if you want big 4 then a good degree from a red brick or older university is the most important . Some firms only really recruit from 10 universities

Just to say you don’t really need maths in the job but the selection process for the big firms these days are definitely easier if you have a modicum of maths!

I think maths qualifications do show you are numerate. Doesn’t mean other skills are not necessary. I didn’t say for one moment the maths would be interesting but maths A level is a means to an end. How do the big 4 choose their apprentices? What do they look for?

It's an almost identical recruitment process to the graduates with the same interviews, group sessions etc. Most I know have top grades at A level. The apprenticeship route is absolutely on a par with the grad schemes, all starting with ACA not AAT. The majority of grad schemes are now also offered as an apprenticeship by EY, PWC & Deloittes.

If anything school leavers at my firm earn promotion quicker on average (and certainly younger) as they have much more experience when they qualify compared to a graduate. Certainly wouldn't hold back earnings but apprentice scheme is untested for this yet (can't see why it would be different). There will be a minimum maths gcse grade needed to apply but certainly won't need any mathematical knowledge beyond gcse level. I've never calculated anything more complicated than a % in 13 years in audit, excel formulae aside.

By maths in the selection process a pp will have meant that there will be online timed literacy and numeracy tests at the first hurdle of recruitment.

My dad also a chartered accountant always says you need to add up divide subtract and do percentages and nothing more complex, and I would agree . You need to understand the numbers but more importantly you need to be able to communicate what those numbers mean to people who don’t understand them and draw conclusions from the numbers and also to be able to contextualise those conclusions. So good written and verbal skills and the ability to evaluate information are critical which could be why history graduates do well .

Staffordshire university have a pure accounting degree, and I'm pretty sure it offers the highest ampunt of exemptions for the chartered accountany exams in the country!

But you still have to get a training contract and I would argue that if you want to train with a top 4 Staffordshire is unlikely to be top of their recruiting list . Also it would make you pretty narrow, to get to the top you need to be more than a good technical accountant .

It is a sad truth that many would rather have a history grad from Bristol with three As at A level and a shed load of ( possibly spurious) ‘leadership’ experiences.

In my firm (Top 10) we don't care about your degree, it's more your personality and aptitude to learn. A degree is simply a tick box for the graduate scheme, and obviously in its absence would be the school leaver scheme.

I did Law at university, and the only reason it is helpful to me is because I am in tax advisory, so I work with legislation all the time. If I was in audit, it would more than likely be no help whatsoever.

As soon as you qualify I don't see that progression will be impeded by whether or not you had a degree. As soon as you get your chartered qualification that trumps your degree anyway, then it's experience that matters.

I don't think that's a sad truth. The history grad is likely to be far more rounded as a person, and in terms of their skillset.

DS did Geography degree, so did quite a lot of statistics at Uni.
He seems to do a lot of audits- particularly solicitors, building companies and Charities for some reason.

I trained as a CA after a biochemistry degree. Was great for me, worked really well as got to do something that interested me before going into Big 4.

If your son is sure he wants to go down the CA/ACA route though, I'd look at the degrees which are sponsored by the Big 4.

What sort of experiences of leadership are “possibly spurious”? All leadership at university can be evidenced and employers decide if it’s of value or not. My DD (not an accountant) was asked at interview about her chairmanship of a ball Committee at university. She gained a huge amount from that and demonstrated lots of skills by taking that leadership role. Is that a “spurious leadership” example? I’m truly curious to know what these fake roles might be that employers cannot see through.

Of course most leadership roles are not spurious Ball Committee definitely not ! In my experience probably equivalent top art time job in time commitment!

But there are plenty of students, if there are 5000 in a year, who don’t have quite such blue chip roles, sometimes through no fault of their own and the big grad schemes definitely like to see ‘evidence of leadership’ so I have certainly seen CVs where roles have been built up far beyond what they actually were . For example social sec of the ‘insert random interest’ which in reality comprised organising one pub crawl a year ! Many first generation students In particular struggle with putting themselves up for election in the first year and are often slower out of the blocks, in contrast others get prestigious roles through contacts ‘ my brother’s friends was here a couple of years ago and told me what to do ‘ etc

I don’t blame them for this , my eldest certainly felt that people joined societies at his university despite having no interest in the topic simply because they wanted it on their CV . Enjoying something just for the sake of it seemed to be pretty rare . As a consequence quite a few did the bare minimum because in reality they weren’t very interested in the subject .

So you do see through the lightweight ones then? I do think DCs who don’t naturally put themselves forward should be encouraged to do so. For one thing it does show you can juggle your life!

It's interesting how different this is in America. My son is studying accounting at uni, and while the exact requirements may vary a bit by state, they all require a uni degree with a minimum number of credits in accounting to sit for the exam.

New York CPA Exam & License Requirements

@MissConductUS I think it's so different as if I've read that correctly you just have to sit one exam after uni? In the UK to become chartered/certified accountant you have a few different options eg ACA/ACCA which consist of around 10 exams each (you get exemptions depending on devious education). Therefore whether you have been to uni or not doesn't matter, it's the additional qualification at the end that is important, you just have different options of how to get there

@Freeshavocado your way sounds a bit easier and less expensive.

I did laugh at devious education.

Absolutely any degree is fine in a well regarded subject I.e. history, MFL, maths, sciences etc. More important to prioritise internships in holidays in relevant field

I'm an ACA of 30 years standing, moved out into industry (ie working as in house accountant rather than for a firm of accountants) soon after qualification.

I would be wary of the school leaver route as a degree has been an essential requirement for all my jobs. Rightly or wrongly, the apprenticeship route will be seen as lower quality by most employers outside practice and recruiters may not be accountants themselves.

A higher class of degree is also more important than subject so advisable to choose a good solid academic subject he enjoys as he will do better at it.

Having gone through the Apprenticeship with a Big 4 firm route - I would advise a Degree first, as it leaves more options open in the future.

We all now have longer working lives and potentially multiple careers in that working life.

It's a long slog and the Accountancy Profession is more enjoyable if you can combine it with a special interest or calling.

The university experience is more than just about the qualification, it is a period of personal growth and reflection in your early adult years, of which I found you don't have time for in the fast and ruthless pace of Big 4 client driven deadlines.

Purely my experience being on the other side of the career path, although I totally see how others would prefer to advise going straight into the Profession at 18.

I work for an accountancy training provider. There’s students studying for all the qualifications - there’s a lot more doing ACA who have done a degree first but a growing number who have started apprenticeships straight from school.

In my experience when people have had exemptions they sometimes find it harder at higher levels as there may be things which they’ve forgotten as they did them a while ago.

I’d advise doing a subject he’d like to do at university and then do his ACA. Being numerate is important but there’s a lot more to bring an accountant than that .

Tje university experience is more than just about the qualification, it is a period of personal growth and reflection in your early adult years, of which I found you don't have time for in the fast and ruthless pace of Big 4 client driven deadlines.

I agree with this, but these days the price tag associated with that period of personal growth is astronomical. Even if you just think of it as a grad tax, is it worth paying that tax your entire working life for?

You could experience personal growth after A levels in a number of ways, and then do an apprenticeship after a few years. It isn't restricted to 18 year olds.