Which degree for accountancy?

[MadamBuxton]

Just planning ahead for my DS who is in year 12 and starting to think about degree choice. He thinks he'll probably want to train as a Chartered Accountant (probably in audit) after university but isn't sure about degree choice.

I am a CA myself and the advice always used to be that you shouldn't do an accountancy/business/finance type degree because firms often prefer a 'pure' subject (STEM in particular) for the transferable skills. However, through my job I've come across quite a few cv's recently for newly qualified CA's who did a finance-related degree then trained with a Big 4 or other firm so maybe my knowledge is out of date?

I'd be particularly interested in your criteria and preferences if you are involved in recruitment...

Those I know did degrees in art history, history, and music.

Thanks everyone. It seems things have moved on to some extent from my day in that an accountancy or similar degree isn’t an impediment to getting a training contract but then with the apprenticeship option now available you’ve got to question why go that route? I suspect my DS will want the University experience despite how much financial sense the apprenticeship route might make so I think I’ll encourage him to focus on a degree he’ll enjoy in a strong academic subject.

DH just got home, 8.30 quite early for him. I relaid this thread to him to ask what he thought he'd do these days, he said "don't become an accountant if you want any work/life balance." ;)

He scrolled this then said the only other thing he wished he had done instead was economics but this is only since moving from manufacturing finance to banking finance.

Funnily enough, DS would probably be looking at Economics or an Economics/Maths combo for a degree. My experience of work/life balance is actually really good as an accountant and it’s a key factor in me recommending it as a career to others

Another CA here. The institutes have started offering the Chartered Accountants training with an integrated degree (in Scotland, it's Robert Gordon University). Pretty much their version of an apprenticeship. Funding is given to firms for this so finding a one offering it might be easier than one offering the AAT route, then CA qualification. It is relatively new but expect it will end up being a popular route. Takes around 5 years but work based. Might be a half way house, with degree and professional qualification?

I took economics followed by a grad training scheme and CIMA. I then drifted off into Government policy and all sorts (PFI etc). The greater oversight that came from economics as well as the understanding that came from accountancy was a good foundation for a pretty varied career.

That said friends who have gone into accountancy have had degrees in MFL, chemistry and plenty more besides. I cant see that a lot of maths is required, just an ability to think logically. There are all sorts of careers in accountancy, and many drift off into general management. It is not a bad way to start a career.

Unless he was to attend one of the really highly regarded courses, LSE is the obvious one, I would not bother taking an accountancy degree.

@jakeyboy1 I qualified at 23 (ACA at a big 4) too without exemptions. Because everyone regardless of degree has to do the same length of time work experience. So that's irrelevant.

I also have a brilliant work life balance. The only chartered accountants I know who don't are those who chose to stay in audit or go into banking.

I have a brilliant work life balance for 11 months of the year, just not January

The OP did say auditor. I just said the young people I know who do this particular job have a maths background. They appear to be unusual! I would have thought maths and auditor would go together!

Not least because enjoyment of figures might help!

DD has a maths degree and is in audit.

When I did maths at Bristol, 70% of us went on to do accountancy because it is a natural step for someone who likes numbers. My firm said that the best correlation was between good A level results and success in accountancy exams. We had graduates from all a sorts of subjects, including music.

I think Economics or law is helpful, at degree level there is very little relevant stuff in maths, but they should do what they can excel in to get the most from their degree, whatever it is.

As others have said, if it is simply about getting into accountancy, the apprenticeship route is probably easier if you have really good A levels as a lot of the people at that stage have chosen to go to university. When they all spill out of university, the competition rates are fairly scary! That said, university is about growing up and personal development as much as education, and I would not want my DCs to miss out on it.

Yes I agree @Monkey2001 - the apprenticeship route would be a sensible choice in a lot of ways in terms of avoiding debt, qualifying more quickly and accelerating earnings but I feel like DS would get a lot out of University in other ways and I’d feel sad for him to miss out.

It’s a grad tax, really. However accountants and auditors are more likely to pay the tax than lots of other jobs. However I think university life can ensure people mature as human beings. That’s worth quite a lot and allows for a change of mind regarding careers. What you think you want at 16 might not be what you want at 21. Most people thinking of Law at 16 probably wouldn’t think they would be accountants. However as training contracts for law are difficult to come by, their minds focus elsewhere. Maths degrees are hugely flexible regarding employment. More flexible than Finance/accountancy. Management degrees are also worth looking at because they are general and keep a lot of doors open.

I did a business degree. I figured that would help with a variety of careers which is the case. I then studied CIMA with exceptions in the first stage of the course. I think CIMA is a more rounded qualification and prepares you for business in a way Financial accounting does not. I wouldn't rely too heavily on technical knowledge, but learn how to add value to a business. You can always specialise later

If your DS is into economics or maths, get him to look into courses with modules that are accredited and offer exemptions for his qualification of choice.

My DH to be took a History degree so had to start at the very beginning re modules, but has always been funded through it by various employers. He's qualified now but it's been a long journey whilst working full time at the same time. It'd be much easier to get a jump start whilst at uni I'd have thought.

CA and recruiting manager here at a Top 10 company. Our successful graduates tend to be whose who demonstrate they are able to think outside the box, are personable and innovative - not just process numbers. Also, lots of our auditors start out in audit but once qualified transfer to another department such as tax, pensions, consultancy, risk etc, which may be less about numbers and more about thought processes. I'm not saying that people with finance / accounting degrees don't have these skills, but we find those with other degrees are equally as likely to succeed, and aren't pigeon holed

Most accountants I know either did law or economics or maths.

I'm interested whether x years in the graduates out earn / progress past those that did the apprenticeship? Does anyone have a view? Expect it depends on area, if you want say a career in corporate finance are you better getting a degree.

According to my accountant when discussing this a few years ago it didnt matter what your degree was in

@schoolchoice at my firm a graduate coming (let's say age 22) is an intermediate on about 21k, someone of the same age who had started AAT at age 18 would also likely be an intermediate by that time so on 21k, but may have already started studying towards their ACCA/ACA which they receive £500 pay increments for each passed exam, so they may actually be on more thank 22k.

Arghh sorry for the typos

I'm interested whether x years in the graduates out earn / progress past those that did the apprenticeship? Does anyone have a view? Expect it depends on area, if you want say a career in corporate finance are you better getting a degree.

Once you have ACA there aren't any real barriers, regardless of the area you've gone into. There is no reason why, on average, grad ACAs would ever be certain to out-earn ACAs who took the apprenticeship route. Corporate Finance is one of the less techy areas - why would grads be better at it?

In fact, because apprentices get qualified younger (someone who leaves uni at 21 cannot fully qualify before age 24 due to the 3 yr work experience requirement for ACA), they are likely to be out-earning the grads if you compare people who are the same age.

I'm an ACA/CTA (big 4). I have 2 degrees, so am not anti-university, but there are apprentices in my team that are more mature than the grads, and the apprentices who work hard progress quickly while the grads are still plodding through the mandatory 3 years work experience (apprentices have already completed this while the grads do uni).

I would have thought maths and auditor would go together!

I only get involved in the tax audit side of things, but it really isn't anything to do with maths! You need to be numerate, but beyond that they're unrelated. Audit is mainly about being sceptical and questioning.

In fact, if someone went into audit thinking they'd be doing interesting maths, they'd be really mistaken.

Flying Start with PWC. Degree, regular paid work experience, whatever the accountancy professional qualification is.
DS is on y2 and loving it.