University Strikes

[ILikeTrains]

I feel like I should be posting this on the AIBU thread but I'm bloody furious that there's going to be another round of strikes. This will be getting on for a months worth of education that these students are missing out on, this could affect their outcomes over all.

I'm sure the unions have very valid concerns for their members but who is the strike really harming? These students only get one go at this - the staff have their degrees already (and probably not at the same expense that these students have).

I'm so angry that the people most affected by this are the students and the have no control at all over this situation.

Current students need to kick off with the uni and start demanding refunds of fees.

DS is much less concerned about the 'waste of money' aspect of lost lectures - and much more on the impact on his degree result. He has worked so hard over the last 3 years but needs a particular result to go on to graduate trainee scheme he's been offered.

I do feel sorry for students. Especially as they’ve faced multiple disruptions over the last few years. The blame for that rests at the doors of the university management, who’ve overseen an explosion in workload, casualisation, gender and pay gaps, are still trying to dismantle our pensions, and are spending millions on campus white elephants and shiny buildings instead of in front-line student facing services esp investment in staffing. All the while giving themselves enormous salary increases.

This 100%. I'm currently doing the jobs of 3 people and i'm on the verge of a breakdown. They won't give me any extra staff but my vice-chancellor is one of the highest paid in the country and we just keep buying buildings. If i went off sick there wouldn't be a single person in my university who could teach my students. That pressure alone makes me ill.

However none of the strikes so far have had any effect whatsoever,

That’s not true - the 2018 strikes were pretty effective. They stopped our DB pensions being gutted.

I'm not eligible to strike this time, but have in the past.

I'm really puzzled reading this thread - why do so many posters presume that most of the people striking 'have benefitted from a free education system and probably grants too'?

Do you not know when grants when out and fees came in? There are lots of people in UK universities who paid fees and still have huge student loans hanging over them. Lots of us barely manage to make pension contributions because we're casualised labour.

I do understand that strikes are hard on students, but a lot of the people who are striking would really prefer not to be striking.

A survey from a couple of years ago estimated that about 25% of undergraduate teaching is done by hourly paid staff - and in some places, as much as 50%. That means half of your student child's teaching may be carried out by someone who is earning less than minimum wage (because you're often only paid for the contact time, not the marking and prep), and has no job security. That person likely has large student loans of their own. They may not have finished their own postgraduate degree yet, and they may be paying quite a bit for that.

Details of survey here: www.ucu.org.uk/media/9258/Precarious-education-how-much-university-teaching-is-being-delivered-by-hourly-paid-academics-Feb-18/pdf/HP_uni_teaching_March_2018.pdf

It's really not a good situation. I don't know if the strikes will change it, but it does need to change.

I do have sympathy

But.

My son is a final year student in his last taught term. He only has contact hours on Tuesday and wednesdays - already ridiculously low. He will have one day of classes in four weeks, and drastically reduced access to his dissertation supervisor. His last term modules will lose 40% of their teaching time.

He’s worked bloody hard for three years and was on course for a first, but his ASD is making writing up his diss an arduous task which is going to be worse and more stressful with 4 weeks of no supervisor in the last stretch before submission.

I have sympathy. But I also have sympathy for my son who will come out with £27k of fees debt for a shoddy service in terms of actual taught content and hours over 3 years and then this at a crucial stage.

DS is much less concerned about the 'waste of money' aspect of lost lectures - and much more on the impact on his degree result. He has worked so hard over the last 3 years but

I get this, but demanding a refund will affect the uni and make them more likely to meet the union demands, therefore decreasing liklihood of further strikes.

A decent course will ensure they don't examine on content which hasn't been covered. So hopefully it won't affect him too much. But he should try and read round the missed topics.

I get this, but demanding a refund will affect the uni and make them more likely to meet the union demands, therefore decreasing liklihood of further strikes.

So basically using the students, who have no say nor control in this matter - as ammo for your fight. Fight your own battles!

Getting a refund on their course is not going to make up for lower results. You hoping that it won't affect them too much is just not good enough.

So basically using the students, who have no say nor control in this matter - as ammo for your fight. Fight your own battles!

Um ... you know what the concept of a strike is, right?

Um ... you know what the concept of a strike is, right?

This is a pointless strike as it doesn't impact those it's aimed at - instead they're willing to jeopardise the futures of a whole generation of students in the hope they'll fight the battle for them.

The strikers may lose a couple of weeks of pay but the cost to the students is potentially far greater.

All strikes impact people we wish they didn't. That's why no one really enjoys the idea of striking.

But, they do also work.

I do get that it's hard, and I do have mixed feelings about it all.

It’s not about getting students to fight our battles, it’s about withdrawing our labour. All our labour, teaching included.

The soon most lecturers vote conservative the better but I won't be holding my breath..... If they were even 50/50 labour Tory in academia that would be fairer and more representative. Where is their diversiy - intead they seem to be 98% Labour supporting. Something is going wrong with their recruitment that they are so undiverse.

Tories tend to be a bit dim, xenia.

But unhappy students will affect the universities. The NSS will be affected and this affects ratings and admissions.

Like I said I'm not striking btw so telling me to fight my own battles is pointless.

@hostesstrolley it's the supervision my son is most concerned about too.

For those worried about their children's results - our university holds a board which looks at outcomes for all modules deemed to be affected by the industrial action. If there is evidence that students have been disadvantaged their marks will be adjusted.
To be honest in my experience a lot of strike-affected lectures etc. are rescheduled or a recording is posted (even though it is discouraged by the union) so the impact is minimal in order to ensure students get the best education possible. Obviously I can only say what happens in my Uni / Dept. Also the sector isn't particularly heavily unionised so a lot of courses are unaffected (although realise that's no consolation for those who are). Am also surprised to hear about the "strident" picket lines that intimidate students. Ours are incredibly civilised and it's actually very easy to access all areas of the campus without passing through one if it bothers you.
No-one wants to strike - my colleagues are all incredibly committed (and frankly most of us can't afford it). However there is certainly a huge problem with short term / insecure contracts which means many younger academics (who certainly won't have got "free education and grants") are disadvantaged in addition to the other issues on the table. I'm not certain as yet what I'll do as will feel uncomfortable striking but equally uncomfortable going against the union - I need the protection of union membership because of some truly dreadful HR practices over the last few years.

@devondeva that doesn't help with supervision though which is so crucial when you are in final year.

I find the concern over low contact hours puzzling. It's not school! I think people underestimate how much of their 'tuition' fees go into journal subscriptions, university-wide resources and lecturers time in terms of administration, marking and feedback, all of which takes place outside of face to face contact time. Perhaps the fees need a name change.

I find the concern over low contact hours puzzling. It's not school!

It depends on the subject. Lab time and problem classes for STEM subjects, plus more lectures because there has to be thorough coverage of specific content.

dahliaa - again my experience supervision may need to be moved to another day but would still be timely. Most of my colleagues give students far more supervision than they are entitled to by university policy (which in our university is actually very limited).

i don't go round saying Labour voters are a "bit dim" and it's a bit of a generalisation above to say we Tory voters are a bit dim - that is an awful lot of dim people.

Anyway let us hope the public sector can move to at least 50/50 Tory and Labour voters as soon as possible so students are exposed to both view points.

Xenia - I actually agree with you that there is a problem of political and viewpoint diversity in universities. However, it's too simplistic to suggest that the recruitment process is not "fair". No one asks you your political beliefs at interview, after all, nor are academics' political beliefs generally obvious from their published work. The fact is that people who incline to the right of the political spectrum are likely to be motivated by money, and are not going to stick out seven or eight years of training, followed by god knows how many years on a succession of zero hours contracts, with a one in twenty chance of landing a permanent job at the end of it. I do actually know quite a few retired academics who are "High Tory" types. They went into the job when it was well paid, with a good pension scheme and decent professional status / autonomy. All of those things have been eroded by wage deflation, a succession of detrimental changes to the pension scheme, and constant assaults on academics' professionalism and workloads. My retired colleagues say they wouldn't touch academia with a bargepole now, and would opt for careers like law or the civil service instead.

When people say they want more tory voters to work in the public sector as teachers, etc., I wonder if they are also advocating for wages and working conditions that will be attractive to people in that demographic so that they don't all go off to be lawyers and bankers?

This is a pointless strike as it doesn't impact those it's aimed at

And when nurses and junior doctors went on strike who was impacted then....? Oh yeah, patients. And the strike wasn't aimed at them!

@Xenia as the pp poster said it’s not about academics changing to vote Tory. Most people who would slog it out to become an academic on the low stipend and long research hours instead of getting a job in the city are more likely to be on the left side of political views.

@Xenia Also I don’t really know why politics was mentioned in the first place. All these strikes, disruptions and fights about pensions and pay are happening under a Tory government.