University Strikes

[ILikeTrains]

I feel like I should be posting this on the AIBU thread but I'm bloody furious that there's going to be another round of strikes. This will be getting on for a months worth of education that these students are missing out on, this could affect their outcomes over all.

I'm sure the unions have very valid concerns for their members but who is the strike really harming? These students only get one go at this - the staff have their degrees already (and probably not at the same expense that these students have).

I'm so angry that the people most affected by this are the students and the have no control at all over this situation.

They do have a choice. University lecturers are not badly paid and they have excellent pensions which cost their employers a significant amount of money.

We can afford to support our DC through university but honestly, unless you are very sure about your degree choice, have significant contact hours or are on a vocational course, I would really think long and hard about what universities are actually delivering.

I agree. DD is doing a science degree with more contact hours than most. I think she only missed one lecture in the last round of strikes, but this looks more serious. She won't get examined on less either, she needs to learn all the content of her course.

Isn’t that what your unions are for?

Oh dear

Their pensions are changing, many are on zero hours contracts and increasing workloads. There is massive pay Inequality amongst the profession.
Yes they could choose to accept all this but they can also to fight for what they believe is right for all their colleagues.

Their pensions are changing, many are on zero hours contracts and increasing workloads. There is massive pay Inequality amongst the profession.

This simply isn't true. Their pensions are fantastic compared to those who work in the private sector and very few lecturers are on zero hours contracts. Some will be sessional lecturers but this is typically due the amount of backfilling needed because of the very high absence rates or because the specific topic they teach is only needed for a very small amount of the course time. Plus sessional lecturers generally get their hours at the beginning of the year and they will then be timetabled in and fixed so its not even vaguely similar to the use of zero hours contracts in other industries/fields.

the very high absence rates

Any evidence of this? Almost every academic I know never takes a day off sick, most never even take all their annual leave. And in my field, if you do miss a day through illness, substitutes aren’t brought in - you’re expected to reschedule missed teaching when you are back.

Your whole post is inaccurate.

My entire post isn't inaccurate. I work in this field.

Unisons figures show that averages days lost per year in IT services is 5.8, in charities is 6 in manufacturing is 6.6, in call centres is 7.6 In local government is 7.9, in central government is 9 in education is 10.1. Only just behind health 10.4.

These are Unisons own figures. They are a couple of years out of date and the figires are now higher.

So you don’t have evidence for ‘very high absence rates’?

Unison isn’t the union for university lecturers.

I cannot support the impact the strike action has on students and their futures.

As a wider point isn't that exactly the point of strikes - to impact and inconvenience others? They wouldn't work if that wasn't the case. Nurses striking and the junior doctor strikes had a far greater impact on people - many vulnerable older people. But people were largely supportive despite the threat to health, yet asking young people (on the whole) to use a library and their own resources and the world throws its hands up in horror! Just an observation.

And education is at the very top of the list in terms of paid sickness leave..

Terms and conditions in education are not bad - particularly in higher education. It's just a militant sector and one of the few remaining where union power is still very strong. After all, you have a strong bargaining position when you can strike and impact a child's eduction

Unison isn't the union for university lecturers, No, UCU is the main union but unison figures were to hand. Unison do however have a high membership in HE due to support staff and increasingly also lecturing staff.

Anyway - work to do.

Unisons figures are for education as a whole - schools, nurseries are included. And Unison don't represent lecturers.

Anyway - work to do.

handy, when your bogus statements are called out...

Anyway - work to do.

grin handy, when your bogus statements are called out...

No - its just that I spend a large proportion of my life arguing with UCU reps with skewed views of what life is like for most people in terms of salaries and general terms and conditions and I can't be arsed to do it online too. UCU is the worst of all the unions to deal with. I'm experienced and jaded enough to know that its not ever going to be an argument you can win. You simply have to hope that they eventually need to be paid properly and they come back to work. In the meantime you pray that the students are not too badly impacted.

The absence stats for different sectors are easy enough to google.

As a wider point isn't that exactly the point of strikes - to impact and inconvenience others? They wouldn't work if that wasn't the case.

Inconveniencing people is one thing - affecting someone's future is entirely another. When transport workers go on strike people may be late for work, not a huge deal, when health workers go on strike you may have to wait longer for your appointment. But this strike could change these students degree results which in turn could affect them for the rest of their careers.

And you really aren't hard done by as a group of workers - the unions just give you a sense of entitlement that is greater than the rest of the working population. You know the union bosses won't be losing any pay when you go out on strike, it's in their interest to keep their members angry and paying their fees.

the union bosses won't be losing any pay when you go out on strike, it's in their interest to keep their members angry and paying their fees.

Decisions about strikes (when, how long) are taken by a committee made up of ordinary members. Not by “bosses” - the (well-paid) general secretary doesn’t have a vote on that committee.

The absence stats for different sectors are easy enough to google.

And yet you haven’t presented them

Funny, given that you stated HE lecturers had a higher than usual absence rate, you’d think you’d have evidence at hand to back that up...

No - its just that I spend a large proportion of my life arguing with UCU reps with skewed views of what life is like for most people in terms of salaries and general terms and conditions and I can't be arsed to do it online too

Ah I remember you, you’re the university HR person aren’t you.

Ah I remember you, you’re the university HR person aren’t you.

Nope, And I've only just name changed (do it every few weeks) so quite how you'd remember me I really don't know.

Why do you spend a large proportion of your time arguing with UCU reps about terms and conditions then?

Oh I don’t remember your username, I remember a poster during the 2018 strikes who was HR director at a university who was adamant that the proposed changes to the USS pensions were perfectly justifiable and reasonable (race to the bottom doncha know). Funny how that one turned out .

Turns out there are two of you in that case. I do hope you find each other

In terms of strike action, in general, I think there is more public support for the work of medics and nurses than that of academics.

Many, if not most academic staff have benefitted from a free education system and probably grants too.
The situation facing our young people now, couldn’t be more different as we all know.

These students have worked incredibly hard to get to university, many overcoming significant obstacles to get there.
I’m not just talking about the host of Mumsnetter children all destined to go to Oxbridge etc, but the young people who are first in their family to go into higher education, who have really strived to achieve.
What does their future look like?

For many, it’s a lot less rosy than when I graduated in the early 90s.
Much as I enjoyed a good protest/ student demonstration in the late 80s, the world has changed.
There just isn’t as much public support for any kind of strike action these days.

Have the Unions really tried every avenue available ?
Many of us are still in contact with our former universities, involved in mentoring, philanthropy etc.
What can we do? Genuine question.

Has there been any attempt to enlist the support of parents through less adversarial channels than asking our young people to walk through picket lines and accept/ support disruption to their education.
Is there any pressure that can be brought to bear on the powers that be to avoid disruption to students ?

I posted on a different thread, that one of my DC had great support when they needed it at their university, for which we are grateful.
I’m not so naive to think that every student turns up well prepared, bright eyed and bushy tailed.
There will be the feckless and the mollycoddled, I know.
Having read some of the posts by academics, I do understand some of their frustrations.

Personally I'm not striking, I'm not in the union which is.

On paper as a senior lecturer I get paid a decent wage. The conditions are tough. I start work at 7.30am, not unusual for me to still be working at 10pm and at weekends. So my hourly rate is shit. The workload keeps increasing and every annual appraisal you're quizzed about increasing your research activity. Which I have no time to do as my 200 allocated hours is spent teaching, tutorials and marking.

It's common for non senior lecturers to have a similar workload and on about 10k a year less than me.

I'm a qualified HCP and when I made the move from clinical practice to lecturer I had to take a significant pay drop as the NHS pays better. So it's hard to recruit lecturers for our field. You can only get either people who are totally burnt out by the NHS or passionate about teaching to the extent they'll work for less. So looking at the bigger picture successful strikes could improve teaching for students as with better pay and conditions there's more chance of a higher calibre of lecturer.

Current students need to kick off with the uni and start demanding refunds of fees.

I have a lot of sympathy with the academics who are striking there is no doubt that there has been rising casualisation in the sector and the problems of precarious employment are well documented .

However none of the strikes so far have had any effect whatsoever, the only people affected are the strikers because they lose pay and the students who are young and relatively powerless . The a University corporate ( for want of a better word) is completely unaffected . The students are not like commuters and the train strikes where they have considerable economic power for example and the people who have the power are able to just ignore them .

To have an effect the action needs to affect the decision makers either directly or indirectly and this does neither , there is literally no incentive for them to move , For this reason the strikes are misguided .