Please talk to me as though I'm 2 - guidance about Cambridge for Maths

[AFingerofFudge]

Hi - I'm completely in the dark about how to go about supporting DS2 who is in the first year of Sixth Form doing Maths, Further Maths, French and Music. He is saying that he would like to do Maths at Cambridge but I have no idea where to start in terms of what he should be doing at the moment to help his chances of getting there.
He goes to a state comprehensive and as the Maths teacher confirmed to me today, no one has gone to Oxbridge to do Maths. Very few have gone to Oxbridge at all. I love his school, some of the departments are excellent, the pastoral care is great, but one of the weaknesses is the maths department.
Purely by chance we have found a maths tutor for DS2 -at his request - to help solidify his learning at school, and because maths is his hobby so he enjoys it, and the tutor mentioned a "step" program.
So today I asked the head of maths this same question I have just asked here, and about step and she said I could find some info if I googled it but they wouldn't be able to do anything "extra" with him. Not that I was asking.
So I would just like to ask, what steps should we be taking now if we're thinking of him applying after the summer?
By the way, we have seen there's a maths open day at Cambridge on the 25th April so will go to that.
Thanks!

Also, this may be stating the obvious, but the standard offer includes A in both maths and further maths. It's this a realistic possibility for him? The admissions tutors are quite blunt about the fact that you do need to be in A territory to be in with a realistic shot.

Yes chicken I do feel that he has the potential to achieve top grades. Now he's settled into it, he is achieving mostly 100% in any work he does. He spends hours doing maths "for fun" so just looking at anything he can find to answer. I'm not doing a boast, stealth or otherwise, it's just how it is here

Try looking up the AMSP - their remit is to support maths in schools, there may be some help there and support with FM. Some of it may need to be accessed via the school - I'm thinking especially of day events they organise that will support/stretch your son and provide some STEp information.

He will also have to consider other universities for his ucas application. Warwick is also tough to get into but he needs to think about where else and you need to be doing visits to several other universities as back up. Also you need to book into subject sessions and open days in advance - in my experience. So make sure you have a place at relevant ones.

It is how it is here, too!

On the subject of open days, because Cambridge requires an early application (15 Oct), it's really important he does his research about alternative options during year 12 and doesn't leave it till after the summer holidays. if his school aren't used to Oxbridge applications they may not be very good at telling him when he needs to do things and he'll need to be proactive.

Most unis have open days in early summer and that's a good time for him to be visiting. The ones in September/October are too late.

Warwick is a classic option for maths. DD liked Nottingham's maths dept which has good reputation, very nice building and seems to have a really good support system for first years.

Re applying to a college, not the university, it is possible to make an 'open' application, in which case, the college which handles the application is allocated by the university.
www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/applying/ucas-application/making-open-application

I suggest you look at Oxford too, for the simple reason that you sit the Maths Aptitude Test early in the process, and if you get an offer younthen just need to get the A levelmgrades. For Cambridge, you sit STEP at the same time as A Levels, and get the results on the same day. They over-offer, and as they both set and mark STEP, that is used to get the numbers right - candidates really do get straight A* for A level but not the required STEP grade.

What are his other likely choices? Imperial? Warwick?

Thanks - good point about looking at other universities, will tell him this.
He comes in late on a Thursday night as he has a part time job so I've told him about the thread but he's not read it yet; we'll save that for the weekend.

I have another potentially daft question: how do you know which college to apply to? I know he wouldn't just apply to Robinson, but he applies on what basis to other colleges? The ones that have music, football and French clubs??

@marchingfrogs oh I see he doesn't necessarily have to choose for himself!

@scaevola so is it early enough in the process that if he doesn't pass the aptitude test/ like Oxford he can then apply to Cambridge instead?
Because he is into music, he was looking at Cambridge as we heard that Cambridge was good for maths and if you have an interest in music.

Will be back later. Need to sort DS3 out for school and but double bonus of day off and payday for me!

You either apply to a named college of your choosing or make an open application where they pick a college for you. You can only apply to either Oxford or Cambridge, not both, plus up to 4 other universities. You tend to have one or two aspirational, two or three realistic and one dead cert of making you an offer. Stating the obvious, even stellar performances at GCSE and predicted A level grades do not guarantee an offer from anywhere.

I think that the Oxford maths aptitude test date is after the Oxbridge applications UCAS deadline, so you wouldn't be able to apply to Cambridge in the same admission cycle. Given school aren't giving support with Step, I agree with pp that he might want to consider Oxford as well.In terms of the colleges -there will be plenty of extracurricular activites across the university, so I wouldn't worry about clubs for deciding on colleges. Thinks to think about are whether he would prefer modern or old fashion quad, size of college, whether the college offers college accommodation for all years of course (saves £££ as you only pay for term time).

You apply to either Oxford or Cambridge in the same year. Not both.

I was suggesting looking at both, to be sure you are choosing the one which suits best. The difference in entrance process might be a factor. Or it might not, especially when in the balance with all the other things, such as music. Which is also good at places other than Cambridge

Regarding college choice, he could have a think about what he's looking for in terms of living environment/location. DD did choose a specific college, based on wanting modern buildings and not in the city centre. Because she's not a fan of crowds and doesn't feel drawn to dreaming spires.

All the colleges have websites, Facebook pages etc so you can do loads of research and then pick a few to visit on the open day. But to be honest it could get a bit overwhelming and making an open application is also perfectly reasonable! There is music and sport absolutely everywhere is Cambridge so he doesn't need to overthink it.

yes, I agree about not overthinking it. also it isn't massively unusual for students to get offered a place at a different college than the one they originally applied for.

Brilliant, this is all really helpful thank you!

Cambridge run very good summer schools for children thinking of applying. www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/events/summer-schools/subjects/maths
Have a look here. One of mine went for history and had a great time. Ended up not in Cambridge and not doing history but still thinks of it positively. Very good luck.

On colleges, they will all have their own music and sports, though some will have more / better than others. Plus all the university level music and sport (which is a lot more serious and competitive, college level tends to be fun). It’s also worth knowing that different colleges have different amounts of money - so if financial support might be helpful, it’s worth looking at the oldest and richest colleges, as they tend to be more generous with financial help to students.

You do only apply for one college at Oxbridge so research what they offer. Do they all offer maths? Check that!

At Cambridge, Maths seems to be offered at every college except Wolfson, according to the department website.

Used to have an interest in several Cambridge mathmos - it's a brutal admission process where they drastically over offer knowing that some will not have the confidence to hold a high Step offer and a lot will not meet the grades. Getting an offer is only part of the battle.

College choice - if you are in the Maths olympiad national team Trinity is the obvious choice but puts a lot of pressure on its mathmos. No college is keen on its mathmos spending lots of time on things other than maths, unless they can still get a first.

He should read the alternative prospectus www.applytocambridge.com/
and (can be very out of date) www.thestudentroom.co.uk/wiki/Cambridge_College_Pros_and_Cons

What sort of music does he like?

He should get to know the Student Room website where there used to be, probably still are, threads to talk about Step questions.

I havent asked any of the mathmos about the Khan academy and step but he could take a look www.khanacademy.org/

Once he has an idea about a college to apply to he can try and contact an admission tutor, explain his school is not familiar with the process and they may be able to direct him to step resources.

OP, I believe Pate's run a free after school STEP programme for the county's schools between 4-6pm on alternate? Fridays. Might be worth investigating?

As noted above the student room website has lots of links for STEP and advice from those who have been successful.

What kind of music? Some colleges have more active orchestras, others have more opportunities for singers. As a PP said, the college stuff tends to be more fun/less commitment than the university stuff, may be nice to have as an option if the workload is hardcore.

I would recommend spending a bit of time wandering around some colleges when you go up for the Maths open day, if you can. The websites give lots of info but there's a lot to be said for seeing where they are, what they look like and what kind of vibe they have.