Oxbridge 2020 (8th thread)

[DadDadDad]

A thread to continue discussing entry to Oxbridge in October 2020 (less than nine months away ). All welcome, although this obviously will be of most interest to those with DS or DD holding an offer, and wanting to find a bit of support.

All too soon, 13 August will come over the horizon. Until then, ask questions... share experiences... discuss news and stats... write a poem... (we did briefly have some poetry on a previous thread).

With huge thanks to @HugoSpritz and predecessors for previous threads.

Must be relaxing living somewhere where just about everyone goes to state school, and all universities are considered equal! The UK bathes in inequality.
Having said that, my dd2's school is very keen on equality - to the extent that it is ethically against any setting - all the dcs learn together in every subject, regardless of aptitude, etc. I don't think it does the stronger or the weaker pupils any favours.

As your post implies, the problem with enforced equality is that it can result in mediocrity. Some of the pupils and students in UK schools and unis are from supposedly equalist countries...

Agree with @Pyjamawriter some way upthread that Oxford wants to have its cake and eat it. There is a huge range among state schools. I know of grammars with no catchment area where children are literally coached for years in order to get in. I know of comps which are grammars in all but name due to their extremely affluent catchment area. To suggest that pupils from these schools are “deprived” by comparison with those from private schools is crazy. I’m not saying that universities shouldn’t be trying to make the application process as fair as possible, just that by simply applying positive discrimination to state school pupils en masse (if that is actually what is happening) is silly. And if I need to add a disclaimer, both my Oxbridge applicants were state school educated, I went to Oxford having been on FSM, etc etc.

DS was at an independent school ( not Westminster ) but considered academic. No tutoring for Oxbridge apart from they did a practice interview where another school came over and they did a practice interview with teachers they did not know ( so they swapped teachers & pupils to do the interview. ) Also showed them where HAT was and did one in class. Just one. Apart from that - DS's school very much said - do not tutor for Oxbridge entrance. A good school . but rather less preparation than one might think.

I'm in favour of setting - I think my ideal would be for all kids to go to comprehensive schools that are very good at setting. So they set in most subjects, and children move up or down if appropriate. And with a good choice of practical and technical subjects for children who are more hands on. There's not enough of that in UK schools.
In some ways I really appreciate a good private school. But the inequality in the UK is doing so much damage, and education is a big part of it.

I really can't imagine that Oxbridge are applying 'positive discrimination' across state schools. There was an article posted a few threads back from a journalist who wrote an article about the admissions process and the decision making was very complex. I imagine it is at the margins that there may be some different decision making - the point up thread is that perhaps the process is not quite as transparent as it should be - I imagine it will be a while before information can be pieced together.
FWIW I guess my ds ticked all the right boxes, state school with poor results etc but he still got 9 grade 9's and an A^^ at GCSE and self taught an AS in Year 10 and managed a very high score on the MAT. He was advantaged though in having 2 educated and supportive parents who did all they could to research opportunities for him.

PantTwizzler in terms of banding I think grammars are nudging up very closely to independents. That's where the highest achieving comps are too. The banding represents a spectrum, but the independents are - as far as I know - all rated the same. That seems absolutely fair to me since the presumption has to be that kids who attend these independent schools are privileged in one form or another, even if they happen to have the odd crappy deadwood teacher at their posh school.

In other words no, grammar school kids are absolutely not treated the same as kids from failing schools or even middling comps. Nor should they be. And if some grammars are pretty mediocre - as a fair few are - then well, tant pis. Same as for indies.

It’s good to hear that there’s some nuance in the system GS. I suppose my underlying point is that privilege, or lack thereof, is about a lot more than just school type.

Agreed PantTwizzler, hence the use of Polar and Acorn etc. School type is one of a number of factors triangulated to attempt to make a whole picture of an individual applicant.

I absolutely love Mumsnet, it's like my own free university education. Tant pis! New phrase for me, I will be using it freely from now on. I think I sound a bit Del Boy when I say any French phrases but it's in my locker now!! Thanks @goodbyestranger

My absolute pleasure GinWorksForMe, as Michael McIntyre would say :)

Someone mentioned Peter Symonds upthread. A quick Google & Twitter search shows that in 2019 they received 62 offers for students from 31 secondary schools in a year group of around 2000. They must also be smarting, because this year they have only managed to get 54 offers from 23 secondary schools (admittedly 11 offers from 1 Winchester comp). It isn't just the top private schools being squeezed.

I am an old MNetter who has been lurking on this Oxbridge thread for a couple of months.

My dd only decided to apply to Oxford post A level results even though they were pretty much what she was predicted, and one of which she didn't consider to be 'acceptable' by Oxbridge.

Her school was a bog standard comprehensive with a tiny 6th form which was ok but nothing special - the last child who got an Oxbridge place was maybe 4 or 5 years ago. - so she decided to apply to semi- selective stand alone 6th form college elsewhere.

She has been doing a specialist FE course, and with some help from her 6th form soon after she decided to apply to Oxford, now has an unconditional offer to do History.

One of which subjects she didn't consider to be 'acceptable'

Just saw friend from MCS. They've got 44 (29%) with offers. IIRC they generally boast of a 30+ % success rate so it's down a bit, and they're anticipating they'll be down further once A level results in as the Cambridge offers are 'particularly punchy'. However friend's impression was that it's not obvious from the stats but it's a disappointment, as its a strong year group and their Oxford offers were lower this year than expected, with some stellar candidates missing out. Though Cambridge stats not particulalrly down - and they always have a much larger amount of Cambridge applicants since many don't want to stay locally.

I also heard OHS is down at 15% offers and virtually all of those Cambridge. (Same thing with more Cam applicants will apply, but surprising nonetheless.)

MCS? OHS?

That sounds like an enormous % success rate for any school. How large are the year groups?

Magdalen College School (famously successful for Oxbridge) and Oxford High School, I assume.

Crummies, I'm clueless as well. I thought I was doing well recognising Peter Symonds and Hills Road as being state schools, Eton & Winchester a being posh boys schools.

Is that 29% of the applicants or the whole year group?

Another quick Google for Oxford High Svhool reveals:

It is this combination of dialogue and challenge which enables us to be the most academically successful girls’ Sixth Form in Oxfordshire, with 1 in 4 of our students typically securing places at Oxford and Cambridge, a 100% success rate for Medicine applications and over 90% of our applicants routinely achieving places at Russell Group Plus universities.

Whole year group, Purplepooch.

Incredible 😳

OHS rate nearly halved by sounds of it then. But they've had a disastrous few years with leadership which lead to losing more to MCS (sixth form mixed). Think they're under half the size now.
Ultimately we'll have to wait until September to see if there are any patterns for what's going on.