Oxbridge 2020 (8th thread)

[DadDadDad]

A thread to continue discussing entry to Oxbridge in October 2020 (less than nine months away ). All welcome, although this obviously will be of most interest to those with DS or DD holding an offer, and wanting to find a bit of support.

All too soon, 13 August will come over the horizon. Until then, ask questions... share experiences... discuss news and stats... write a poem... (we did briefly have some poetry on a previous thread).

With huge thanks to @HugoSpritz and predecessors for previous threads.

In other words it's pending on the system, preventing the same applicant putting in a second application.

oneteen any chance you could copy the article? (It's behind a pay wall). Thanks!

My son is in his first year of A levels and is listening to the talk this year about offers and scores in the year above. If your child is at an elite indie you should think very carefully now before applying to Oxbridge. Things have changed very dramatically. My DS’s “elite” school has been hammered this year on STEM offers (not maths though - STEP is its own filter). The BMAT contextualisation was mentioned way back which concerned me. But now that scores are coming out the extent of the swing away from private’s is becoming clear. Surely they will have to be transparent on how they penalised private schools. Someone mentioned 5 levels of independent schools with the top being penalised most severely. This will have to be published if it’s true surely?
How will this stand up to challenge if it’s becomes clear that a blanket penalty has been applied to private schools when these students are often on bursaries and had no say in their schooling?
We are thinking that investing in US Ivy League is the way to go. Let’s see what the data is in September. They can’t hide this can they? They will have to say “5% knocked off HAT score if you went to Eton”. No?

Anybody know if Cambridge feedback is back yet?

Our local elite indie has had a 25 percent drop in Oxbridge offers down from 37 to 28 and the biggest drop is from Cambridge.

Where was it that five levels of independents were mentioned Elay321? I think five categories of schools have been mentioned but I haven't seem anything about that level of distinction within the independent sector. It would require some motivation to actually find five categories worthy of disctinction! My understanding is that all indies are in 'Band 1' for want of a better description. I think there's a strong argument that there is no discrimination against those who've benefited from a privileged education (leaving aside the question of parental income, which is less relevant) - rather, adjustment for those who haven't had that benefit. It seems long overdue.

Many thanks oneteen!

Should all degrees from Oxbridge automatically be reduced down to the next class of degree to reflect the fact that it’s students have the “privilege” of focused tuition and excellence lecturers ? All firsts should be 2.1s etc
Levels the playing field for those at former polys when competing for jobs. A first from a former poly equals a 2.1 from Oxbridge?
Obviously would be ridiculous. It’s a dangerous game to penalise students based on their school. However, l do think we have to wait and see what the facts are. If they are banding schools then they will have to disclose this. They must act in a fair manner.

Goodbye What is the source of your information about state schools being placed in categories? You mentioned this before the admissions tests.

Blimey the mum in the article has named her son and her son's school .

Elay321 I'm struggling a bit to see what's wrong in principle with banding schools? Obviously there's going to be kids who missed out from independents this year but then in previous years those from less good schools missed out. It's at the borderline where there's been an issue, and I'm not clear why the Ben's of this world should take the place over those of equal merit who haven't had their advantage educationally. There are limited places, so something has to give.

I'm probably not going to name a source, tbf.

That telegraph article is pure sentiment. No facts or basis to feel the son was a victim of discrimination on basis of his school. The anecdotal evidence is that indie offers are sharply down. Individuals with high scores are being rejected from the same. But we need to see what the penalty is that is being applied. How this “banding” of schools being applied. I don’t think they can hide this from the public. I can’t see how they can reduce an score from an aptitude test in the basis of a school and be considered fair.

ofteninaspin it's all schools, not just state - but I may not be absolutely correct. That was my understanding though. I don't think anything criminal has taken place....

Elay321 of course they can qualify a score. Why not? The top independents give masses of help in mastering the aptitude tests whereas other kids go in with no guidance at all. One History tutor said of a previous Head of Westminster that if Oxford wanted applicants to stand on their head, then his school would teach them to stand on their head. Honestly nothing could be fairer than doing what Oxford is doing.

But my thoughts are currently with poor Ben :(

Contextual judgements have to be done “in the round”....this candidate while on paper is weaker than some of his peers...but but...and a middling candidate who has had excellent schooling all the way...Okay most of is can see how these factors have to come into play.
Blanket reductions of marks from an aptitude exam on the basis of school? Nope. Not many would consider that sledgehammer approach to be fair. And maybe that’s not how they did it. I assume they’ll have to disclose.

I am all for expanding access, and am first gen, council house, grammar school. My reservations are that I suspect Oxford want it both ways; to trumpet their expansion of places to kids from less privileged backgrounds ( whom I am cheering on and to whom I wish every success) but actually they also quite like kids who have been fortunate enough to be well taught by subject specialists (which is actually what we wanted rather than pursuing some mad Oxbridge-focussed strategy) and don’t want to put them off in droves by being too explicit about the impact of contextualisation. DS2 thinks Oxford is too small and wants to go to London. Oxford also not great for what he hopes to do anyway, dept. chaotic and v high suspension rate so taken all together he feels its probably not worth it.

we will have to start admitting some of these people.

Sounds a top bloke.

What a mess.
And they are not admitting Westminster and Eton in heaps anymore. Watch this years intake published in the Autumn from these schools. Plenty for classics of course but you won’t be able to tell that from the results as they mix up the unis & subjects. They’re not getting in for the most competitive STEM subjects this year.
Goodbye, the amount of help for admission tests at some elite schools is a myth lm afraid as is the standard of some teaching. You’d be very surprised.
Of course the real gainers will be Imperial & UCL who will be packed to rafters with four A* students rejected from Oxbridge.

And most of are genuinely pleased that disadvantaged students are being given a fair crack at the whip. I was one of these students myself. Numbers would need to be gradually expanded however so as to not cause mayhem in a sudden change in admission procedures and criteria.

Someone is bound to challenge this. Seems like they’re moving the goal posts in a hap hazard manner. I can’t see indies taking this lying down. I wonder how much they’ll disclose about the selection. Let’s see.

Mayhem for who exactly Elay321?

It would be a fabulous court case that's for sure. Possibly group litigation - even better.

Drav the goalposts seem to have been moved but there's no particular evidence of haphazardness is there?

What do you think the independents can do, apart from shout?