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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

University life for freshers (2019/20) - Christmas backpacking (or not) and festive homecomings with all the tinseltastic trimmings!

986 replies

NewModelArmyMayhem18 · 11/12/2019 17:53

Previous thread.

Crown Smile
OP posts:
Ginfordinner · 15/01/2020 16:10

I think some hand holding is absolutely fine.

Some hand holding, especially in the first term, is fine, but if a student needs hand holding to do their course (I am categorically not talking about hand holding for health, mental health or pastoral issues here, purely for academic study) over the entire three/four years of their degree I would question whether they should be studying a degree.

If a university with students with average grades of DDD is handing out as many firsts and 2:1 degrees as Oxbridge/Durham/Imperial etc then you have to question just how much hand holding is happening there.

Trewser · 15/01/2020 16:34

Maybe loads. Why does it matter? Honestly, why does it affect anyone else?

SecretGuiltyPleasureLoveIsland · 15/01/2020 16:46

If a university with students with average grades of DDD is handing out as many firsts and 2:1 degrees as Oxbridge/Durham/Imperial etc then you have to question just how much hand holding is happening there.

I'm not sure it's handholding. No employer worth its salt is going to equate a first from Oxbridge with a first from a university making DDD offers. What's the alternative, for a 'lesser' university to only give out thirds and fails or non-honours degrees? Surely everyone takes into account the university a student studies at.

Ginfordinner · 15/01/2020 16:49

What's the alternative, for a 'lesser' university to only give out thirds and fails or non-honours degrees? Surely everyone takes into account the university a student studies at.

I guess that is why we have university league tables then. That is another can of worms.

VanCleefArpels · 15/01/2020 17:09

@Trewser the coming black hole in the nation’s coffers due to loans not being paid back is all our concerns. And personally I worry that kids are being sold a lie that a degree is essential when some should be guided to work and apprenticeships etc

Ginfordinner · 15/01/2020 17:18

And personally I worry that kids are being sold a lie that a degree is essential when some should be guided to work and apprenticeships etc

I agree. I feel that far too many employers have been sold the lie that a degree is required to do the job. I never went to university, and neither did my head of department. Fortunately she recognises that, although we do have a few graduates in our team, no-one needs a degree to work in our department, and she interviews potential employees regardless of whether they have a degree or not. They just need to be able to write copy and be computer literate.

bigTillyMint · 15/01/2020 17:22

@Benjispruce, DS doesn’t have exams either and only went back today Shock Not sure what he has missed, but he was planning on going straight out for his mates (who does have exams) bday. He has also being saying that you only have to pass first year exams.... He has got a lot of “summarises” this term that count towards the first year. Perhaps because they are both doing Humanities they don’t have exams?

I get what you’re saying about some unis, but I think it’s not necessarily a question of them hand-holding - many offer much more practical/industry linked/professional degrees as opposed to more academic study type degrees. So it’s comparing apples and pears.

And some mothers are more worried/inexperienced about uni, etc than others. I think that fb group is quite supportive for mums who don’t know much about the application process or what going/studying/student life entails?

bigTillyMint · 15/01/2020 17:24

And personally I worry that kids are being sold a lie that a degree is essential when some should be guided to work and apprenticeships etc

This in spades. Due to governmental policies to widen access to university when some of the degrees are spurious at best.

Benjispruce · 15/01/2020 17:29

@bigTillymint I need to send DD round to your DS’s gang. Wink

bigTillyMint · 15/01/2020 17:31

I reckon they’re in the Stag right nowGrin

Ginfordinner · 15/01/2020 17:53

I get what you’re saying about some unis, but I think it’s not necessarily a question of them hand-holding - many offer much more practical/industry linked/professional degrees as opposed to more academic study type degrees. So it’s comparing apples and pears.

Yes, you are right there. One of the options DD was initially looking at was diagnostic radiography, and the best universities to offer that course were not RG universities.

VanCleefArpels · 15/01/2020 18:14

My RG graduate older child is working in a job he says any bright school leaver could do. It’s the bottom rung of a ladder in a field with a recognised career structure where he will be able to take professional exams later on down the line, and he’s grateful for the job. But it’s not a “graduate” job really despite the requirements of the employer.

He has mused about what his degree (entry requirement AAB) gave him. Yes, deeper study into a subject he enjoyed, yes skills such as team projects and report writing, the opportunity to run a Society so management and organisational skills, and all the life skills that come with living away from home. And because of where he studied he benefits from a slight aura of prestige that will stay with him (like it it not, a reality). So all good stuff. But it was all entirely unnecessary for the job and career path he has chosen to follow.....

Trewser · 15/01/2020 18:26

If the employer required a graduate then his degree was completely necessary.

VanCleefArpels · 15/01/2020 18:31

@Trewser yes I agree, the point being that the role doesn’t require a degree in his eyes. This goes to the point I was trying to make earlier (perhaps clumsily) - because so many kids have degrees these days, jobs that may have previously been happily filled by school leavers are now being filled by candidates with degrees. And so employers then think well this role clearly needs a graduate because look at Jim, he’s got a degree! And so the whole thing gets unnecessarily inflated and the bright school leavers who for whatever reason don’t go to university are shut out

Trewser · 15/01/2020 18:38

Sounds like he's a bright bloke who went to a great uni and now has the beginnings of a good career. I wouldn't overthink it.

VanCleefArpels · 15/01/2020 18:41

I’m sure he’d be delighted at that description Trewser!

Ginfordinner · 15/01/2020 18:46

Sadly, VanCleef is right. As I said in my previous post too many employers ask for a degree where it isn't necessary.

And, fortunately, my boss isn't "most employers".

Trewser · 15/01/2020 19:13

You may think it isn't necessary, but if employers ask for a degree then a degree is necessary Confused

Ginfordinner · 15/01/2020 19:15

Yes, you are right Trewser. Not all bosses are as switched on as mine.

Trewser · 15/01/2020 19:17

I know plenty of employers who don't require a degree (manufacturing)!

Ginfordinner · 15/01/2020 22:33

Someone is derailing the Oxbridge thread Shock

SecretGuiltyPleasureLoveIsland · 16/01/2020 01:56

Gosh @Ginfordinner, it is kicking off isn't it. Oxbridge rejection does funny things to people.

So pleased the twins got in. It feels years ago that we went through this.

Trewser · 16/01/2020 07:47

The Higher Ed boards on Mumsnet aren't great places if your dcs aren't at a 'top' uni.

I remember a poster starting a thread for parents of students who had gone to lower ranked unis. It was totally derailed by posters musing about how it was a complete waste of money, and they shouldn't even bother.

Sadly this thread is starting to go the same way.

Good luck to all your dcs, I'm sure they will all do very well and hope all illnesses resolve!

Ragwort · 16/01/2020 07:54

I've always found this thread incredibly helpful and supportive, my DS isn't at a 'top' uni but the advice and help has been invaluable.

It's a completely different debate to discuss whether a degree is 'essential', in many ways it probably isn't (I have a degree but absolutely never 'needed' it for any job I've held, certainly not my current one Grin) but going to uni is so much more than just 'getting the degree' and I am very pleased that my DS has the opportunity to go to uni.

Kuponut · 16/01/2020 09:52

For what it's worth I did my first degree at Durham - did fuck all work and lots of drinking and managed to blag my way through arguing and doing minimal reading.

This time around (I'm on an Allied Health Professions course) I'm at one of those places that make MN gasp in horror (it's the most local option that does a niche course) and we are all having to work our arses off from the sheer amount of content on the course that we have to learn, fully understand and produce. While I breezed through my first degree - this time around undiagnosed dyslexia and information processing issues really came to the fore very very rapidly and I was diagnosed as I was really struggling.

And for comparison's sake - I missed a First from Durham by 2 marks, and I'm pulling every single mark at very good First levels this time so far so it's not as if I went in able to achieve only a third and then am suddenly getting firsts at a "lesser" university.

I don't think in our cases that the handholding has increased. I think technology has naturally allowed a development in terms of lectures being available online to watch back again (rather than ye olde method of frantically trying to scribbble as much down in your hour as you can), and lecturers being available via email to clarify if you've found you're still struggling with a point - part of the natural march of technology. We've had more support in terms of the library staff coming into our sessions to give us input in terms of things like referencing and article search skills - and there's more available in the library like academic writing workshops and maths clinics - but they're very much something you have to actively chase up and get onto yourself and, as always, those who want to do well and feel they need that support will go out looking for it and those who don't, won't.

Disability support's come on in leaps and bounds though - the amount of assistive technology and resources out there is absolutely epic - I'm almost fighting off support tutors with a stick as I don't really need them (my issues are just processing written text - there's a strong query over if my dyslexia is Irlens-type)!

The quality of our teaching is actually superb - I think our staff are very keen for us to succeed and will suport us - but that's a very small cohort and the staff all being from the same professional background we're going into and just wanting the next generation to do well rather than spoonfeeding. I'd say we probably have out of our group of 35 on the course (like I say - fairly niche single-profession oriented degree) about 5 or so as a hard core who have an attitude on them and can come across a bit as expecting spoon feeding - but actually even they're obviously slogging away in the background and putting the graft in.

Actually I'd say it was probably my "posh MN approved" degree that was the waste of taxpayer's money to be honest - probably more of a personality/maturity thing than anything else though. I just don't like the view that there are only so many universities that are "worthwhile" - especially when you're considering careers that require degrees but are very specific in nature and only offered by a small group of unis.

Just wish our local "MN beloved" one offered my course as the commuting is a fooking pain in the arse!

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