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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

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Oxbridge Aspirants: Sep 2021

999 replies

funkysatsuma · 01/12/2019 17:27

Not sure if it's too early to start this thread in Nov 2019 :)

DS would like Cambridge Economics as the first choice. Would like to know where can we get some help to prepare for the ECAA test - appreciate any pointers/links. Thanks in advance

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7
goodbyestranger · 17/07/2020 10:00

DD4 has no intention of deferring either and says that she gets no sense of there being mass deferrals among the other offer holders she's talking to on Zoom etc. If only because opportunities during a gap year 20/21 will be far more limited.

I would expect Oxford to want to retain its post results discretion as to who they admit and who they don't, looking at the pre-tests and interview scores etc. They do this each year anyhow, it may just be that there are a few more who need looking at this year. That seems to make more sense than a blanket holding offers open type of thing. Durham has said it won't be holding offers open.

chitchattery · 17/07/2020 10:07

@IrmaFayLear Of course none of what is happening this year is “fair” - in that it is not what usually happens, but I think it might turn out to be more complex than that. They can take people who miss their grades and do in some cases. They may decide to do that more this year if they have more places through people deferring esp. international students. They can look back to testing and interviews and may decide they are comfortable to confirm the place. Also some students will decide not to retake and will go to their insurance. Or they won’t get the grades when they retake. I think it would be very hard to give numbers of the likely impact.

MarchingFrogs · 17/07/2020 10:07

Additionally pre-A Level applicants would be competing against more people with grades in hand who might not fancy going this year.

Only if I just don't fancy starting this year is permissible under the university's criteria for allowing deferral? Otherwise, exercising their right not to take up their place after all this year can be accommodated by them being free to submit a fresh application at any time between 1st September and 15th October. With no guarantee that they will be successful a second time.

Re those taking the A level exams in October because their CAGs didn't meet their Cambridge offer, even if most do succeed, there is no guarantee that everyone will, although I agree that what numbers may be involved is a genuine reason for concern on the part of 'chronological' 2021 applicants.

chitchattery · 17/07/2020 10:08

Cross post with goodbyestranger!

chitchattery · 17/07/2020 10:10

And Marchingfrogs. I’ll shut up now!

sammyjoanne · 17/07/2020 10:18

I dont think there will be many deferrals with oxbridge, but even if there was a few, its still worth going for as part of the ucas process as they have 5 choices. In it to win it as they say.

IrmaFayLear · 17/07/2020 10:35

Surely no deferrals of those who already have a place will be permitted - that would be a cheeky ask!

But people who get excellent grades and might be holding a place elsewhere might now think that they'll ditch the offer from eg Exeter as the experience might be a bit crappy anyway, and instead have a run at Oxbridge for 2021. Having their grades in hand will mean that even if Oxbridge doesn't work out they'll probably end up at Exeter anyway, just a year later.

Baaaahhhhh · 17/07/2020 11:07

DD2's year 13 friend already has a deferred place for 2021, but she applied for that and was offered on that basis. I suspect Oxford may not allow post offer deferrals, who knows, we can only wait and see.

Empty places has always been an issue at Oxford. In DD1's final year, the new entry for her course at her college was empty as the two candidates didn't meet the offer, and it is one of the most competitive courses. Seems such a waste, when so many other candidates could have gone. Perhaps in the next couple of years, more flexibility will be required, especially if Chinese student numbers are dramatically down.

Hoghgyni · 17/07/2020 14:59

If DD meets her offer for Oxford, she will be there in October with it without matriculation, freshers week etc. She is more than ready to leave home after lockdown.

SeasonFinale · 17/07/2020 18:34

Irma - but that happens every year anyway. Non offer holders who get all A Or 2 x AA may withdraw their place and reapply with grades in hand.

IrmaFayLear · 17/07/2020 18:38

Indeed, but the current situation might tempt a few more to do so. Otoh no point in a gap yah if you have to spent it in your bedroom!

4catsonabed · 17/07/2020 19:04

Oxford won’t be affected by deferrals any more than usual in 2021 because they haven’t announced guaranteed deferred places based on success in the Autumn exams. However, I do think it’s likely that Cambridge will be.

Think about it, A student is predicted AAA. The teachers obviously thought he / she is capable of these grades in the summer of 2019 - why would they not assess the student at these grades in April 2020 (barring something very drastic having taken place in the interim)? Particularly so, if the student has “proved” this grade assessment by getting through the Cambridge test / interview and earning a conditional offer.

But then the grades come out in August and one A* has been moderated down to an A.

I think in these circumstances, knowing that they don’t have to reapply and go through the whole process again, most students would feel cheated by this moderation and choose to focus on bumping that one grade up to the A*. Especially if it’s only one subject they have to focus on and they have a few months to revise.

If they had to go through the interviews etc again, with no certainty of another offer, then no. They would probably go to their insurance in most cases. But effectively, Cambridge students this year have two cracks of the whip, as a pp said.

For the course my DC is interested in, there are around 90 places. Spread across 30 Cambridge colleges, this averages at maybe 3 places per college. They give conditional offers to about 120 every year, knowing that 20-30 won’t make the grades in the actual A-levels. Let’s face it, most of this 20-30 will only miss the grades narrowly..

But this year, there is nothing to stop this 20-30 “retaking” and achieve the grades for a guaranteed place for 2021. So the 2021 cohort could potentially be competing for closer to 60 places, rather than 90, with 30 places having been secured before conditional offers are even sent out in January. This is the difference.

IrmaFayLear · 18/07/2020 09:45

Quite. When are the retakes marked and when are places decided?

Are the colleges going through the interview process as usual or will they know that they will have to be potentially 30% tougher?

4catsonabed · 18/07/2020 10:43

I think I saw on the Cambridge website that all interviews will be remote this Autumn.

I don’t know if the D of E have announced a date for the results of the Autumn exams. Presumably, it would have to be before Jan 15th when the conditional offers are out?

In any case, different Cambridge courses / colleges would have been informed of any of the 2020 cohort doing retakes and would have to work on the basis they will be starting in 2021.

Hoghgyni · 18/07/2020 17:59

Here you go 4cats (from gov.uk):

Students who do not feel their calculated grade reflects their ability will have the opportunity to sit an exam in the autumn term. AS and A level exams will take place in October and GCSE exams in November.

Our aim is for A level results to be awarded before Christmas. Universities representatives have assured us that universities will be as flexible as possible in their admissions.

hobbema · 18/07/2020 20:01

4cats, can only speak for DD holding an offer for Cambridge which she desperately wants; she has been “fallow” for want of a better way of describing it since March and currently cant countenance another year of what would feel to her like limbo. I really get where you’re coming from but I wouldnt assume that all those who miss will want to risk another throw of the dice for an A* they might never get, and miss similarly valuable insurance places they have no guarantee of getting again if they pass up.

SeasonFinale · 19/07/2020 09:53

Has Cambridge said how they will treat the missed grade offer. Does the student have to withdraw from 2020 and start a 2021 application? I assume they would and also put in their other choices. It may be that they don't get the same insurance as we know some of the higher achieving unis such as Imperial/LSE/ Durham sometimes don't offer to students who get an Oxbridge offer. So they would need to weigh the risk of potentially still missing an A* to make their Cambridge offer and potentially not getting their current insurance place.

IrmaFayLear · 19/07/2020 10:42

I think they said they’d be guaranteed a 2021 place if they made up the grade in the autumn. Presumably the exams will have to be marked very quickly so that numbers are known before they starting dealing with the “normal” 2021 aspirants.

I wonder if people are guaranteed their original offer college or if the deal will be that they have to accept being shunted around.

hobbema · 19/07/2020 11:22

As far as I know, the place is guaranteed, they dont have to reapply but they would obviously lose their insurance places elsewhere as I mentioned . Think the message said the aim was for original college but that might not be possible, so yes, possibly shunted around.

SeasonFinale · 19/07/2020 15:08

I think you misunderstand - the place is guaranteed as long as they make the grade in Autumn.

But does that mean if they find out at Christmas they haven't they have to quickly enter a 2021 application by 15 Jan or will Cambrudge have said after results day to withdraw 2020 application for both them and insurance and start a new 2021 by 15 October but guarantee same offer on receipt of new 2021 application? This gives them the best shot of good insurance places in case they still don't get grade in Autumn exam.

Hoghgyni · 19/07/2020 15:19

I've found that the best source of info is usually the university website. From the Cambridge website for offer holders:

We understand that there may be an opportunity to take examinations this autumn. If you have not met the conditions of your offer this summer, you may choose to sit alternative examinations this autumn. The University of Cambridge will make you an offer for entry in October 2021, if the terms of your original offer are met as a result. Where possible, this will be at the College where the offer is currently held, and the current College must be notified by 31 August of the intention to take the autumn exams.

hobbema · 19/07/2020 16:18

I dont think I have misunderstood anything Season; my previous post made it clear the guarantee of a place was contingent on achieving the Autumn grades. Please correct me if I’m wrong or missing something.

IrmaFayLear · 19/07/2020 16:26

Someone may have answered this - sorry if I have missed it - but could an applicant retake an exam to rekindle their Cambridge hopes whilst still having taken up their place at another university?

I know in normal times if you’ve accepted a place you’re out of the game and would have to withdraw and reapply for the following year, but could people this autumn hedge their bets or would this be prevented?

sammyjoanne · 19/07/2020 18:11

@4catsonabed

Oxford won’t be affected by deferrals any more than usual in 2021 because they haven’t announced guaranteed deferred places based on success in the Autumn exams. However, I do think it’s likely that Cambridge will be.

Think about it, A student is predicted AAA. The teachers obviously thought he / she is capable of these grades in the summer of 2019 - why would they not assess the student at these grades in April 2020 (barring something very drastic having taken place in the interim)? Particularly so, if the student has “proved” this grade assessment by getting through the Cambridge test / interview and earning a conditional offer.

But then the grades come out in August and one A* has been moderated down to an A.

I think in these circumstances, knowing that they don’t have to reapply and go through the whole process again, most students would feel cheated by this moderation and choose to focus on bumping that one grade up to the A*. Especially if it’s only one subject they have to focus on and they have a few months to revise.

If they had to go through the interviews etc again, with no certainty of another offer, then no. They would probably go to their insurance in most cases. But effectively, Cambridge students this year have two cracks of the whip, as a pp said.

For the course my DC is interested in, there are around 90 places. Spread across 30 Cambridge colleges, this averages at maybe 3 places per college. They give conditional offers to about 120 every year, knowing that 20-30 won’t make the grades in the actual A-levels. Let’s face it, most of this 20-30 will only miss the grades narrowly..

But this year, there is nothing to stop this 20-30 “retaking” and achieve the grades for a guaranteed place for 2021. So the 2021 cohort could potentially be competing for closer to 60 places, rather than 90, with 30 places having been secured before conditional offers are even sent out in January. This is the difference.

There are also the ones that didn't get an offer in the first instance and going to try again next year. My daughters friend did not get to the interview stage, and hes going to try again for 2021 grades in hand. Oxford are not keen on people taking a gap year or deferrals, unless they did something that said year related to the course (which he is doing as its a physics related job placement). It a rarity they will offer a deferral to someone who just wants to travel on the gap year or something that not course related; so the 2021 cohort of year 13's applicants will have a better chance than this year 13's :)
MarchingFrogs · 19/07/2020 19:39

Someone may have answered this - sorry if I have missed it - but could an applicant retake an exam to rekindle their Cambridge hopes whilst still having taken up their place at another university?

Oxford does accept applications from undergraduates at other universities, but the Cambridge website says:

The Cambridge Colleges will not normally consider applications to Cambridge from students enrolled on degree courses at other UK universities unless there are exceptional circumstances or there is a change of subject (in which case a letter of support from the student's current institution is required). If in doubt, applicants should contact individual Colleges for further guidance
.
www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/applying/entrance-requirements/students-at-other-uk-universities