Oxbridge Aspirants: Sep 2021

[funkysatsuma]

Not sure if it's too early to start this thread in Nov 2019 :)

DS would like Cambridge Economics as the first choice. Would like to know where can we get some help to prepare for the ECAA test - appreciate any pointers/links. Thanks in advance

@cinammonbuns - I think the grievance with the HAT is that Oxford decided to contextualise the HAT last year for the first time without prior warning. They moved the goal post on lots of students by doing this.

Whether it's right or wrong for them to contextualise the HAT is a completely different argument. But it was definitely wrong of them to mislead prospective students by not warning them that they would be doing this. And the History Department is the only Department that appears to have done it - so surely all departments should contextualise their admissions tests, or none should.

(see B2 of this document for evidence. www.merton.ox.ac.uk/sites/default/files/inline-files/History%20Information%20for%20Applicants%202019.pdf)

Apologies.. the link doesn't seem to work because of my last bracket. Here it is again.

www.merton.ox.ac.uk/sites/default/files/inline-files/History%20Information%20for%20Applicants%202019.pdf

I'm sure I've found useful parental contributions on TSR, on Mumsnet and on other sites.

Regarding 'context' and Oxbridge applications, my understanding is that everything is taken in - and decided upon in – context, both ‘deprivation’ type indicators and other factors. It can even vary for two very similar applicants in the same class at the same school. In real life it's often very difficult to find out and unravel what is formally 'context' and what is something else.

In January 2016, there were two girls in my daughter's class for one subject, girls from very similar backgrounds. Cambridge told the school their applications, including the tests, were very similar. But they offered one AAA and the other, for the same degree course, was offered AA* AA. Was doing 4 A Levels part of the broader consideration? Or was it just unmoderated subjectivity and lack of consistency across the 31 colleges’ 31 different subject Directors of Studies and 31 different Admissions Tutors?

Pragmatically, I would expect all Departments at all Universities to contextualise everything and, I’m afraid, there will also be variation and subjectivity from candidate to candidate, from course to course and from year to year.

By the way, I think Oxford centralises more and moderates better than Cambridge at the moment.

@MidLifeCrisis007 well yes that’s an issue with Cambridge admissions. They need to be clear if they contextualise results and for which courses.

Were they both doing 4 x A Levels?

At an admissions talk at Cambridge (humanities) they said to be careful about doing 4 A Levels since if you are doing 4 then your offer 'could' be based on 4.

There's been some debate on here about whether 3 or 4 is better. DD did 3+EPQ which was about the (non school) subject she applied for.

That’s true. Otherwise people could be saying they were taking 15 A Levels (slight exaggeration maybe...) to look impressive and then drop 12 of them once they had acquired an offer.

DD2's offer for Oxford History said AAA but for those applicants who listed a fourth A level on their UCAS application, the offer includes a requirement to complete that A level, although grade in the fourth doesn't matter. I found that quite funny - served any applicant playing a game right.

I can't see that 'changing the goalposts' matters. What would any applicant have done differently? The only thing that announcing the precise position of goalposts in advance does is to advantage the already advantaged - which would be counterproductive.

@JBX2013 well yes at my DD’s school it was often thought doing 4 a levels was kind of shooting yourself in the foot for Cambridge as they often give an offer based on all four a levels. But that it’s the really about contextualisation it’s just something some colleges do.

*not really about contextualisation

My daughter did 4 A'levels predicted 4A*. Did UNIQ summer school at Oxford (2019) had grades 8/9 G.c.s.e . Did EPQ, physics work experiences and the astronomy clubs. Come from an area that's ACORN 4, POLAR 1. Passed the PAT test got to interview stage and still did not get in. Feedback was she was prompted that little bit more than other students. That's it.

You could come from a low progression area, have the best record you can possibly have, do every single thing to try and get in and pass tests with flying colours and it still doesn't pan out. I over analysed everything. Is there anything she could have done differently? did she not have enough contextualized data? maybe 5 A'levels and 15 g.c.s.es instead of the usual 9 would have been more appropriate and gain extra points? Perhaps the lecturer didn't click with her? But, its best not to over analyse as there is not really a definitive answer.
I will say this, its definitely worth going for though, so it might turn out in their favour and get in :) Plus they have 4 other choices on UCAS, so they are not putting all their eggs in one basket.

She never regrets applying. In fact she is going to try for a PHD at Oxford when she finishes her masters. :) All the extra curriculars and grades got her an unconditional at another one of her choices shes in love with, so it all still worked out great

Although nobody needs four A-levels for a competitive application, there is at least one course where four A-levels are better than three (if the school offers this option).

For Physical Natural Sciences: Maths, Further Maths, Physics and Chemistry are all either essential or highly recommended. There isn't an obvious one to drop out of the four.

Maths and Physics are essential. Applying without Chemistry is possible, but it would limit the modules available to the point where they might as well apply for Physics at Oxford instead. Further Maths is definitely preferred and is the only subject in DS's offer where an A* has been specified. (The university understands that not every applicant is able to study Further Maths A-level, and there is space on the supplementary questionnaire to explain if this is the case).

Cambridge have dropped a lot of the admissions tests for next year anyway, so these can’t be contextualised.

I had heard / read somewhere that the assessment for conditional offers is 30% GCSE, 30% predicted grades, 30% interview (inc. admissions test where applicable) and 10% personal statement / reference. Can anyone confirm this?

4catsonabed - The split and assessments process is different for each subject at Oxford and is available on the faculty websites. Also the split changes as each stage takes place. So weighting on one area drops and another may rise. Not sure about Cambridge as they are much more college based decisions.

The one thing about Oxford is if you get an offer you get their standard offer. At Cambridge there is a usual offer which will generally be the minimum offer but higher grades can be requested.

For example, Ironoaks has stated her DS needs an A for FM out of 4 A levels whereas a friend's son has a Natsci offer at AAAA and any of his 4 A levels can be the A*.

This is where there is some confusion because pupils from high performing indies may be asked for A x 2, A for a Humanities whereas a state school pupil may be asked for the usual offer of AAA. (As I said this is Cambridge specific - Oxford - you get the same offer as everyone else for that course).

@Ironoaks it is still up to the college on which A levels are acceptable. DD has just graduated with Phys NatSci. She did maths, chemistry and physics. She was at an indie where FM was available but chose not to take it. She checked with the college first. She actually took FM to AS for her own development but it was not required. Her offer was 2 A stars and one A. No subjects were specified. I would agree that taking all those subjects would be ideal - but not always necessary to get an offer.

For all the prospective Oxbridge parents, as you can see there isn't a one size fits all.

DDs GCSES were 50/50 As and Astar, she had good references, a PS that demonstrated an interest in the subject, an EPQ in the subject plus she had attended Cambridge open days and summer school. She has no contextual flags and goes to an Inde
She did just enough to get an interview. She then did an at interview test and in my (and her) opinion wrote a very bizarre answer. She then argued with the interviewer when he disagreed with a line in her PS.
She was given a standard offer.

Others at school applied with all Astars and were rejected. Someone else she knows who has straight Astars AND contextual flags who applied for the same course (at a less well know college) was offered 2xAstarAA!

...on the basis of this you really can't predict it!!

I just had a look on the Cambridge website and it does say they might make “less challenging offers” based on “individual circumstances.”

Sounds like contextual offers can be made then?

@4catsonabed they say this to look inclusive. They are not going to give offers to people who are not academically able regardless of any contextual factors.

My dd went to a school with many students with the many contextual factors, low income, free school meals, refugee status, carer. None of them got an offer below the ‘usual offer’ for Cambridge.

So yes while someone with contextual factors may get the usual offer of AAA for humanities versus someone at an independent school with no contextual factors may get an AA*A offer it’s not the free ride for state school students that some people on here want to believe.

and as @bpisok said it is all very college dependent at Cambridge. A boy in my DD’s school went to a secondary school where most students didn’t get 5 passes at GCSe, had a low household income, low Polar and was on free school meals and he applied for the more well known colleges at Cambridge and was given a AAA offer for Economics where the A*’s had to be in Further Maths and Economics.

Bearing in mind his other subject was Maths, it was practically a AAA as it would be almost impossible to get an A in Further Maths but not get an A* in Maths.

@cinammonbuns same at my DC's school. All those factors and all in shovelfuls. In DS's year an incredible 5 students had offers - unprecedented in the the school's history (DS was lucky to be in tis exceptional year) and not one had a contextual offer. In fact all leapt the standard offers. DD's year had not a single offer, in spite of the fact DD and a couple of her friends had all A stars at GCSe and did the same at A level. They just weren't prepped for the admissions tests or interviews. How DS and his friends cracked it I'll never know!

I wonder how they would contextualise the 20% of students at my DS’ school (selective, around 75% A*-A at A-level) who are there on bursaries. The odds of their bursary places at 11 plus were probably far more competitive than Oxbridge tbh, but how would they take the “privilege” of this education into account? Plus, in London, as I’m sure is the case in many cities, some of the most expensive properties / privilege could be literally nextdoor to some of the most deprived accommodation in the UK. Must be a minefield!

They don't 4Cats, as those DC have had the privilege of an education so far to date which allows them to get those grades. They don't need their results to be looked at in context, as they are already achieving at a high level.

Yes that makes sense. Presumably though they might get some contextualisation based on living conditions background though - eg. parent with mental health, social services intervention, temporary accommodation, BAME, asylum seekers etc. Many of them fall into these categories, despite the school.

Not at all, as they have had the enormous benefit of an private education giving them a leg up all the way through.

...so they should be achieving top grades already.