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Medicine 2021

999 replies

Millylovespuddles · 28/11/2019 19:46

Hi all
It looks like there’s no medicine 2021 entry thread yet, so it might be an idea to get the ball rolling.
My DD is getting stuck into her A level course, doing well so far, but I’m guessing we parents could do with some mutual support and advice from parents who’ve been here before.

OP posts:
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nexttime4 · 26/12/2019 12:25

@HostessTrolley I have heard of other student very very unhappy about how Imperial made such sweeping changes with absolutely zero notice to applicants. I'm glad your dd is happy now - not true for everyone!

nexttime4 · 26/12/2019 12:43

@SirTobyBelch - I agree that if there is fluctuation in the NSS it is of no use. Where it is very consistent though, I'd rate it right up there in importance. Its basically the only time where you actually get to hear the objective opinions of a large number of people who have actually done the course!

@LaLaFlottes
As above I think NSS results should factor in there somewhere, but that is up to you. I think you can afford to consider more aspects of uni life, but perhaps closer to the time after an open day visit.
Regarding point 7) - bear in mind this is very subject to change, and often if the retake policy is sounding particularly brutal, that is because the failure rate is very low, and vice versa.
Regarding point 8) - bear in mind that 'optional' varies between anyone can choose to do it if they want, to only the top x% in the year are allowed to do it. Details can be hard to find.

nexttime4 · 26/12/2019 13:05

@peteneras Oh wow where to start.

"That's of course, Oxford and Cambridge's fantasy dreams. The best medical students don't go to Oxford or Cambridge to learn or do Medicine - not in the last decade or so years as far as I'm aware including this (pg. 18) latest two years' factual publication!"

You do realise the stats on pg 18 have Oxford and Cambridge getting the highest scores in the country for FY1 applications right... were you intending to cite something else?! There are plenty of valid criticisms to be had - seems bizarre you'd pick them doing too well in doctor's job applications as one of them!

My suggestion that they attract the best students was to explain why they get the best exam results. If they are not attracting the best students, you are arguing that the teacher they offer is much better than other med schools. Again: are you sure that is what you mean?!

Regarding Singapore - seems to really irk you that your med school (I'm guessing) isn't good enough for them then! Guess that further underlines the point!
There's actually 38 med schools now with the new ones and Singapore has cut another 6 from the acceptability list. With its vastly larger GDP per capita than us, I guess it can afford to.
Also the US is that much larger in terms of land area, which is obviously the correct metric - I'm sure we all agree that the Antarctic is severely lacking in med schools given how large it is!
Quibbling over the details hardly detracts from the larger point, though. Its a minor issue though - most medical graduates stay in the UK ultimately.

If you actually have a sensible argument do feel free to respond with relevant citations. Or just insult Singapore. Why not.

abitoflight · 02/01/2020 19:42

Hi
Does anyone know here about UCAT working? DD reading a book that says paper not allowed but some places give a non- erasable whiteboard? Idk if this out of date - she's looking at 2017 book but says she needs a test centre where she has some way of rough working

MarchingFrogs · 02/01/2020 20:23

No-one going for Medicine in the Frog household, but from the UCAT Consortium website (so presumably applying to all centres):
www.ucat.ac.uk/sjtace/test-day/test-experience/
www.ucat.ac.uk/media/1289/professional-examination-rules-2019.pdf
A marker and a set of noteboards are provided which should not be removed from the test room. If you fill your noteboards, raise your hand to notify the administrator.
During your test you will have access to a simple on-screen calculator

abitoflight · 02/01/2020 21:00

Thank you 😊

nexttime4 · 03/01/2020 19:34

@abitoflight
Excellent answer above.
Just make sure DD realises just how quick you have to work for the UCAT. If she is doing lots of working on paper, I'd be keeping a very close eye on that clock!
I can definitely empathise with wanting at least something to scrawl on though. I think I used mine just to write questions I was uncertain about, so I could take a guess and revisit later on if there was time. There was not!

abitoflight · 03/01/2020 20:44

Thank you
She's been looking at the timings and was surprised!

mumsneedwine · 03/01/2020 20:45

Make sure she practises using the on line calculator as apparently can be 'sticky'.

peteneras · 04/01/2020 10:28

”If you actually have a sensible argument do feel free to respond with relevant citations. Or just insult Singapore.”

Just merely stating some harsh, hurtful and hard facts re Singapore/Oxbridge, nexttime4 - every single word, data and statistics. From none other than the <a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.foundationprogramme.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2019/11/2019-Recruitment-Stats-and-Facts-Report.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiT6Km6tMXmAhWQXsAKHVejAoQQFjAAegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw0XUHxIv9QAEsNhvTUd2iNk" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">UK Foundation Programme (UKFP), the official body that oversees and collates all UK (and other) newly qualified doctors and streaming them into their foundation jobs. Nothing can be more reliable and factual than their annual publications! The individual medical schools, wannabes and publishers of league tables, etc can wish, dream and fantasize and publish what they like.

On page 18 of this year's UKFP report, Total Scores Comparison with UKFP 2018, columns 3 and 7 show the Maximum Score for both the SJT + EPM exams obtained by each medical school in the UK in the last two years. In other words, the top and brightest students! For your benefit, I've summarised the results as follows for Oxbridge vs the actual top students, i.e. not the average of each individual school. This is perfectly in line with what I said earlier that The best medical students don't go to Oxford or Cambridge to learn or do Medicine - not in the last decade or so years as far as I'm aware...

FP 2018: SJT + EPM
Cambridge 96.22
Oxford 96.58

Aberdeen 96.89
Manchester 96.69


<strong>FP 2019: SJT + EPM</strong>
Cambridge 95.450
Oxford 95.883

Edinburgh 96.465
Warwick 97.991

So, from the above facts, Oxford and Cambridge <span class="italic">do not</span> have the monopoly of <span class="italic">doing substantially better in both the written and clinical/communication exams</span> like you claim.

<span class="italic">"My suggestion that they attract the best students was to explain why they get the best exam results."</span>

My point is that Oxbridge <strong>don't necessarily</strong> attract the best students insofar as Medicine is concerned - (for one or more reasons as listed upthread by someone in “factors to consider when choosing a med school”) - they may well be for every other subject under the sun. 

Also, like it or not, the foremost top doctors, specialists, medical tutors, research centres, teaching hospitals as well as some of the world's premier med schools, etc are predominantly centred <a class="break-all" href="https://secretldn.com/london-hospitals-city-care/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">in and around London.</a> To say nothing about the UK’s <a class="break-all" href="https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/features/britains-best-hospitals-a-patients-guide-798352.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">10 best specialists hopitals</a>.

 
Even Oxbridge send some of their students to London to train in their clinical years!

<span class="italic">"Regarding Singapore - seems to really irk you that your med school (I'm guessing) isn't good enough for them then!"</span>

Like I said before, some of the British med schools were teaching/training medical students even before your beloved Oxbridge was/were founded and certainly before that swampy piece of mangrove island got its present name, "Singapore", which btw was only founded by the Briton, Stamford Raffles in 1819. St. Bart's, Queen Mary, University of London, for example, was teaching medicine some 700 years earlier! Likewise, St. Thomas' Hospital, King's College London, was founded 1173 with roots going back some 70 years even further. Now, this was a time when the inhabitants of Temasek, as Singapore was then called, were <a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=singapore+1819&prmd=imnv&sxsrf=ACYBGNR6n8UBzWdusi3GhkGTkfELxw0hfw:1577417775123&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwja2JeR89TmAhWZgVwKHSuBDO8Q_AUoAXoECA4QAQ&biw=960&bih=600&dpr=2#imgrc=0qkhmj3Mcq69UM&imgdii=-RjM1aTsP-qvyM" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">running around in loincloth with their little bows and arrows – (scroll down to see their huts on stilts)</a> and yes, coconut husks for medicine coupled with chanting bomohs, never mind any British med schools are good for them or not.

And so what if Singapore has a larger per capita income than the UK? It’s also larger than the USA, Germany, Japan etc for that matter. But it is a shrinking country with the <span class="italic">local</span> population half that of London's and a negative population growth; so by definition it’s headed towards extinction if you'd asked me. The locals are utterly unhappy with their lot and the govt is desperately trying to inflate their population size by actively encouraging elite foreign immigration which results in a country filled with animosities between "us and them". And sorry, they won't see my medic DS over there anytime soon - someone who’d graduated from a premier central London school with a BSc Hons (1st) and MBBS (Distinction) whose London school is more than a dozen places higher than the very best Singapore  medical school! At only 26 years of age and having just completed his F2 last August he’s earning as much as your local <span class="line-through">26</span> 62-year-old MP! Singapore and Oxbridge will have to do better to produce a medic like him, I’m afraid. . .
nexttime4 · 04/01/2020 17:33

...oh my god that was one of the funniest things I have ever read peteneras! Complete with actual pictures of 200 year old loincloths to prove that the opinion of the entire nation of Singapore means nothing! I'm so glad you took my suggestion of 'just insult Singapore' so literally! Brilliant!

Thanks for letting us know that a single student from Aberdeen did very well, but I'll stick with my point about average results being a lot better from Oxbridge. Incidentally, Barts actually gets the very worst results in the UK, rather amusingly given your apparent beliefs about age.

I guess your DS doesn't work in the NHS if they're already earning more than a consultant one year after FY2! Perhaps if he took his amazing talents to Singapore he might earn a little more though? They might pay in loincloths though, can't confirm one way or the other!

LaLaFlottes · 04/01/2020 18:04

@abitoflight - DD was the same about UCAT and when she realised they didn’t have paper, but we’re given white boards instead. We bought one for about £2 from “The Works” for her to practice and get used to.

I think UCAT is the part she’s most worried about tbh. She’s started having a go at some questions to get familiar with it. I guess they can’t particularly revise but they can at least practice!

mumsneedwine · 04/01/2020 18:23

Medify for the month before UCAT. And the 1001 questions book. And keep calm !

LaLaFlottes · 04/01/2020 19:42

@mumsneedwine thank you! She has the book and I’ll add medify to the list for the month prior!
Any thoughts on when to sit UCAT? Wait as long as possible so can have as much practice as possible or just get it done once you feel comfortable? Maybe it’s just personal preference!

Also with BMAT is it just Oxford that needs it to be the October exam?

Thanks!

mumsneedwine · 04/01/2020 19:50

Def personal preference for UCAT although getting it out the way means if doing BMAT can spend more time on that. And also gives more time to research options with your score. I think Oxford currently only needs Oct BMAT but always check as things change every year.

And from DD and friends experience it's better to cram for UCAT over 3-4 weeks after A levels. Immersion into it and nothing else seems to be the favoured way.

HostessTrolley · 04/01/2020 20:59

My d did the ucat (was ukcat then) very early on, in July. She figured that it would be easier to tackle it after her year 12 exams while her head was still in study mode, and she had a fairly full summer planned. Friends thought she was crazy, but she did 3 weeks or so of medify and came out with 2880. She could then spend time over the summer with her ukcat score and predicted A level grades in hand which was helpful in deciding which unis to apply to. She decided to sit the BMAT so she could apply to imperial, the tests are quite different to each other so it was useful to have the ukcat out of the way before thinking about BMAT prep.

LaLaFlottes · 04/01/2020 21:39

Thank you! Very helpful info. We need to plan our summer I think - we were thinking of going away around 12th July for a couple of weeks but maybe not the best idea.

Is the date for the August BMAT confirmed yet at all?
Thanks!

abitoflight · 05/01/2020 08:18

Thank you @LaLaFlottes good idea
I've tried to google how much Medify costs but can't see it anywhere without creating an account

mumsneedwine · 05/01/2020 08:45

Think it was £30 for a month - 3 years ago.

mumsneedwine · 05/01/2020 11:10

Hope this helps

Medicine 2021
abitoflight · 05/01/2020 12:17

Thank you
I think I'll get it sooner rather than later then looking at prices
I'm always pessimistic about DD and really didn't encourage her to do medicine despite both me and DH being doctors. I just hope she's not setting herself up for failure. I know it's actually selfish of me.
She surprised me with GCSE's though.
It's going to be a big year!

mumsneedwine · 05/01/2020 13:59

Not sure I'm too happy about my DD doing it after reading Adam Thingy !!! And none of us have any medical background so all new. But she's loving it. Gone back today as helping at interviews next week. We just support and listen to her weird dissection sessions !!! It's a long road but our DD is pretty normal and holding her own.

Floramargarine · 12/01/2020 07:47

Hi, just found this so thought I’d mark my place. Dd is also set on studying medicine but doesn’t seem to be anywhere near as prepared as the Dc on this thread- she hasn’t really had an in depth look at unis or the Ucat/BMAT- but has started volunteering at a nursing home and is looking for a half term work experience placement. The only thing that worries me is her studying 4 A levels (biology, chemistry, maths and history) and she is adamant that she wants to carry them all on, I’m scared this will lead to her missing the grades but I guess she surprised me at GCSE. Feel like I should encourage her to have a look at some uni websites soon

Weaverspin · 13/01/2020 19:27

Hi Flora - it's worth getting one of the 'Getting into Medical School' books (like the one by Adam Cross) as they help you work out how to best target your application. It gave my DD a useful start; she then went on to create a spreadsheet showing what the unis ranked on - A level scores, UKCAT / BMAT, GCSEs, Personal statement, interview/MMIs - whether they did full-body dissection or not, what sort of teaching they did.

Also, do scour their websites for the latest info, and The Student Room can be useful.

It helped her think about what to focus on. She dropped her 4th A level, and later dropped the EPQ as well, as she wanted more time for volunteering and focussing on getting the A/A* she needed. (The courses she was interested in weren't that bothered about her having a 4th A level or an EPQ (unless you get an A+, in which case it can buy you grade wiggle room in some cases)).
She boiled it down to about 5 Unis to visit.

She's in her first year at Nottingham now - her first choice - and loving it.

Wishing your DD all the very best.

LaLaFlottes · 14/01/2020 19:30

Hi All - does anyone know when the August BMAT is likely to be?
I see last year it was Saturday 31st Aug so will seeing if it will be Saturday 29th or Saturday 5th sept!
Trying to fit in work experience!!