Medicine 2021

[Millylovespuddles]

Hi all
It looks like there’s no medicine 2021 entry thread yet, so it might be an idea to get the ball rolling.
My DD is getting stuck into her A level course, doing well so far, but I’m guessing we parents could do with some mutual support and advice from parents who’ve been here before.

Thanks for the work experience links upthread - very useful and I've passed them on to DC. I've suggested he research if there are any other similar as he's been asked to do a first draft of his PS by college - I think he's getting fed up of me spamming him with advice though so will have to leave him to it!
Did someone link to a table somewhere setting out requirements for each uni course in terms of GCSE attainment/A level predicted/UCAT/ BMAT scores etc? Sure it's been discussed somewhere but events and the thread have moved on a bit recently and I can't think where it was..

Medical Schools Council re entry requirements:
www.medschools.ac.uk/studying-medicine/applications/entry-requirements

@Truist
This is the latest MSC guide on WEx in the covid pandemic. Not sure it adds a lot, but shows what sort of things med schools might be looking for
www.medschools.ac.uk/media/2635/guidance-on-gaining-relevant-experience-for-studying-medicine-in-the-time-of-covid-19.pdf

Thank you both - very helpful and I appreciate your help navigating through all this!

Question for those with some experience on Personal Statements. DS has had a first cut at drafting his, and originally jotted down some of the books he had read, and a line about what they had taught him. But he is already over the word limit, and everybody has said to him, don't just put a list. And he was also finding that so many of the books covered a range of topics, and one line couldn't do them justice. So he was wondering if it was OK to put something like: "I read widely (both fact and fiction). [my comment: that is true] Within that I have read a number of books on medical related topics such as medical ethics... [other medical related topics he has read about]" and then if he ever gets interviewed, he would make sure he would be prepped with a couple of books on each medical related topic he mentions in the PS to trot out and discuss. So if they asked him about the books he had read on medical ethics, he would be able to mention book A and book B etc. Is this a reasonable approach to take, as otherwise it turns into a very longwinded paragraph that was effectively a list, and yet still didn't give a feel for the fact that he had read around a fair bit.

@bimkom
I think he was along the right lines with looking at what he gained from reading the books? Saying he read a book about medical ethics tells the med school very little except he can read, but saying it showed him the importance of looking at things from all sides, or applying the 4 pillars of ethics or that there is sometimes no right or wrong answer or the value of a team to help make complex and difficult decisions? He can then maybe add that in where he is talking about ethics or teamwork or justice or leadership or whatever? Most people reading the PS want to know what you have learned from an action, rather than the very fact you did it, so it is about reflection, reflection, reflection. If he has demonstrated, for example, all the skills mentioned on the Core Values and attributes to study medicine
www.medschools.ac.uk/media/2542/statement-on-core-values-to-study-medicine.pdf
then just using it as a way of demonstrating breadth of interests and winding down time should be enough, I would have thought

I think my d tried to link things together rather than just give a list of books - kind of along the lines of (not a real example) ‘I saw how difficult tactful communication can be when I observed (a) on an observation day at ward (b). I read more about this in a book by (c) and it reminded me of dealing with an unhappy customer at my part time job at (d). And this can be linked to the nhs principle (e)’ or whatever...

@HostessTrolley - he has done this earlier, with his work experience in A&E. And in fact he has mentioned two books by name already higher up (practical books on what it is like to be a junior doctor), and talked about communication and teamwork etc. The thing is, he has also read about a dozen other books on other medical related topics, medical ethics, medical history (eg genes, cancer, I am not sure what else, but at least a couple of others), how drugs work, GP experience, surgeon experience, end of life care experience, psychiatry experience. And there just isn't room for a reflection on each, or even really for a list. (And this is only focusing on the medical books, not including all the books he reads on politics, and things like Sapiens, and Educated and Game of Thrones or whatever). So the question is, does he completely drop any reference, except to the two books he has mentioned by name, or try and mention one or two more, but there doesn't seem to be much logic in which to pick, as it doesn't flow from the other things, he has discussed, so it is a bit of an add on, so I am not sure I can see the point. And what it doesn't give, but the sentence above does give, is the sense that he is a genuine reader who reads around, and is willing to discuss what he has learnt on a whole range of topics, if you give him space.
We are having the same problem with his Olympiad results. He got a silver in both Maths and Chemistry in the latest (and some previous years, but that we weren't going to go into) . Now silver isn't gold or kangaroo or whatever, but it is a respectable achievement. There is no way to really link it to anything else.

There’s loads of stuff that the majority of med school applicants just can’t fit in, and actually the PS is becoming less and less important in the selection process for most medical schools now. A few will score it, but the majority say that they read it through as part of a last check after interview, before making an offer, just to make sure that there are no glaring issues - the same with school references.

With everything that’s currently happening, and the knock on effect on Universities, does anyone have any views on whether the number of places for “rest of UK” students at Scottish universities is likely to go up or down significantly for 2021 entry?

Hi all, just checking in. Have been feeling a bit overwhelmed with everything over the last few weeks, am having to really push DS's school to set 'new' work rather than just past papers and revision. I know it's difficult to introduce new material remotely but my concern is if they don't start doing it now then come September when we still might be seeing local or individual lockdowns the processes won't be in place

This post -

Your post highlights my concern as not all students are in the same boat. DD has had one Chemistry task with no set date for it to be handed in. She's had nothing new from Biology, just told to look over the work they've done and answer a past paper. She's started doing some UCAT prep and is working on her research project so isn't completely idle, but that is off her own back and not driven by the school.

While I understand that they can shift grade boundaries to compensate for the disruption they won't be able to allow for the huge differences in the provision of education during this time. This is a real concern.*

• sums it up for me. I wouldn't say DS's school is song a bad job and most of his teachers are amazing and go above and beyond- but they certainly aren't offering the full online timetable that a friend who is a teacher at a private school is providing. I share the concerns that moving grade boundaries will not level the playing field either, it will in theory just mean proportionally more of the top grades go to private schools and those who have best maintained teaching.

Anyway- thank you Ganfyd for the work experience links, very useful. I have seen that some of the unis are offering online open days - I was too late to book onto the one for UCL annoyingly but will keep my eye out for others.

Still no news on UCAT other than they're hoping to run it but possibly later I see.

Hope everyone is keeping well.

Pearson Vue have said they are planning an announcement about the UCAT on Monday, so hopefully we will know a little more then.
Useful thread of medical books people have enjoyed here, if anybody has a bookworm with some free time
www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6491274

Just a note to say that the driving test theory centres are taking bookings for tests now so that might be a good sign that UCAT will announce that they are opening for bookings too.

@GANFYD Do you have any thoughts on whether everything that’s happened is going to affect the number of spaces at Scottish Unis for RUK applicants? DD is keen to apply to at least one Scottish Uni (we have family there) but I’m worried it’s a waste - I’ve seen the number of spaces there is likely to be and we’d discounted a few as some were so low to start with - I think Dundee o my had 16 places for instance!!

Thank you for the book list too @GANFYD.
DD has read some of these but plenty more to go!
I’ve actually enjoyed quite a lot of them once she’s read them too! Unnatural Causes was brilliant and when breath becomes air was so well written I thought and emotional.
She really loved reading War Doctor too.

@LaLaFlottes I think it unlikely the Scottish Government will increase intake targets for RUK applicants, sadly. They were pretty clear in the letter accompanying last year's targets that they are looking for Scottish domiciled applicants
www.sfc.ac.uk/web/FILES/announcements_sfcan062019/Annex_A_Medical_School_intake_letter_2019.pdf
Things may well change, though, as if Coronavirus means that they have a significantly reduced International cohort, they make that up with RUK, as they bring in more money!
Not something you can rely on, though!
For this year's entry there are around 25 places at Aberdeen, 14 at Dundee, 76 at Edinburgh (though they only had 61 start in 2019 and may have reduced places down to that sort of level), 46 at Glasgow, 44 at St Andrews. Prior to that it was around 20% Dundee and Aberdeen (27 and 31), 42% Edinburgh (81), 27% Glasgow (56) and 46% St Andrews (45).
The St Andrews' places are maintained, likely due to the significant number who move on the the English route for clinical years.
Having said that, somebody has to get those places, so if your daughter's stats are good, it may still be worth it (I had one with an offer for Dundee and he really liked it, though did not go in the end and another with an Aberdeen place, which was Insured).
Dundee use UCAT 40% and A levels and GCSEs for the other 60%. They need a pretty high UCAT, generally, though not at Edinburgh's level!
A high UCAT would make Glasgow a realistic choice.
Aberdeen use UCAT and A levels and are unusual in that they carry pre-interview scoring forward for 50% of the score used to determine offers, so good it high predictions and UCAT (usually need lower than Dundee).
Edinburgh have ridiculous standards. As a percentage of the cohort, probably higher than Oxbridge, historically, though they started interviewing this year and changed their selection process, so be interesting to see how that pans out. Interviews are made on the basis of the following weighting: 50% academic; 15% SJT; 35% UKCAT.
This score is then carried forward and will make up 50% of the post interview score for offers. Looking at stats of people with interviews it does not appear to have dropped a lot! RUK applicants have historically needed all Astars in best 10 GCSEs including core (now 8), AstarAstarA predicted and the average successful UKCAT score for Edinburgh over recent years has been 2860 (715), 2860 (715), 2130 (710) and 2850 (712.5)! These are well into the top decile of all the people who sat the UCAT, but only average for Edinburgh.

I have not listened to these myself, but I know a lot of people have found them interesting and again, may make talking points regarding WEx type things
www.bmj.com/sharpscratch

Ganfyd thank you for those links, really useful.

@GANFYD thank you so much for the info on Scottish Universities- the thought did cross my mind that if they get less international students they may need more RUK as they pay more - but maybe for 2021entry international students numbers might be back to normal.....thank you for all the details - we will have a good look!

Any thoughts on Queens in Belfast? DD seems to like the look of this one and said that they treat a grade 9 GCSE differently from a grade 8 (which may be why she’s showing interest)!

Thanks for all your help

I see the Sept BMAT is cancelled.

Also UCAT can be done at a test centre or at home - reg opens 1st July and tests sat between 3rd Aug and 1st Oct.

Shame that they won’t be able to have any BMAT scores before applying.

LaLa I hadn't seen the update re BMAT - thank you.

@Pumpkintopf no worries - it’s a shame isn’t it. DD liked the thought of being able to sit BMAT in Sept if UCAT doesn’t go her way....

I wonder if now the number of applicants per place at BMAT Universities will be lower as less will want to apply without knowing their score? Just another thought added into the mix!!

@LaLaFlottes it is a shame - DS was hoping to sit it in September as he likes the look of quite a few of the BMAT unis and it would have been nice to have had results in hand before sending the UCAS application off... ah well, more time to prep I guess although it would have been nice to have had it out of the way in the summer before the ramp up towards a-levels starts...

With the UCAT - do the candidates get their results 'on the day'?

Thanks 😊

Yes that’s a good way of looking at it - more time to prep as they won’t be juggling UCAT and BMAT at the same time.

I believe they do get their results on the day with UCAT.

DD is thinking she’d still like to sit UCAT at a test centre rather than at home. I think she’s worried about any IT issues at home!

Yes I know what you mean - it would be awful if the broadband went down! I don't know how the online proctor would deal with that either, whether they would allow them to resit - at least if a problem happens at a test centre you have someone there who can a) verify it's happened and b) try to fix it!

My thoughts exactly @Pumpkintopf it would just be awful if the broadband went down. You’d hope there is something in place for this but it could be tricky and stressful to deal with from home.

Like you say, at the test centre there will be help available and they’d be able to confirm what happened.

DD has her driving theory test booked for 24th June so will get to check out the test centre before making a final choice, but I doubt she will change her mind!

I keep seeing things around Universities holding places for anyone due to start in 2020 if they decide they are not happy with the grades they are awarded in Aug, and want to sit the exams in the Autumn. It’s a worry as then surely these students would then have to start in 2021, so that takes up some places, along with deferrals too - starting to wonder how many places will actually be available for our DC. Hopefully most students will be happy with their results in Aug and will start as planned in 2020.