Medicine 2021

[Millylovespuddles]

Hi all
It looks like there’s no medicine 2021 entry thread yet, so it might be an idea to get the ball rolling.
My DD is getting stuck into her A level course, doing well so far, but I’m guessing we parents could do with some mutual support and advice from parents who’ve been here before.

I suspect the interviews at some unis might well ask general questions about the NHS/ capacity/ response to this crisis, so it might be worth the current DC, freed up from work experience, reading about everything which is going on and coming to their own conclusions. It could fill any gap that lack of work experience frees up. A number of doctors are reporting the situation as complete and utter chaos. It's going to be a big national conversation for a while to come.

Is anyone else wondering what affect the current crisis will have on 2021 entry? The logical part of my brain says everyone is in the same boat, but the emotional side says ‘oh no, not looking good’
I feel for the leavers and lower 6ths, such a time for anxious kids ( and parents!)

@Millylovespuddles I'm wondering about the effect on 2021 entry too for DD. All the current year 12s are in the same boat so I'm not concerned about the effect on their education (although I'm sure there will be an effect) or grades.

My concern is that Universities will have over offered this year and will have too many students, some of whom will be asked to defer their places for a year. This will lead to fewer places available for 2021 applicants.

Everything is up in the air and nobody has any answers at the moment so there's no point worrying about it. If DD has to take a gap year before going she can save some money which will help towards Uni costs!

DD is potential 2022 Med applicant.

If any of your DC are not doing 1 Maths (let alone 2), has anyone come across the Core Maths qualification? I am wondering how accessible the Maths content of a Med degree would be after a gap of 2.5 years?

She's likely to get 8/9 for her GCSE, but wants to do English/Philosophy as well as Bio + Chem for A level.

My daughters first lot of work experience has been cancelled and all subsequent volunteering has too. Is everyone thinking that our children may need to hold off entry to 2022???

@89764 I wouldn’t worry too much - there will be a lot of applicants in the same situation and there may well still be time to fit some in. Even if it wouldn’t be in time for putting it on personal statements for applications in October, there should hopefully be time before any interviews they are lucky enough to get and that’s when they can then talk about it.

Work experience is only part of the puzzle from my understanding. My DD is trying to replace the work experience and volunteering she would have been doing now, with additional reading and listening to podcasts about medical ethics etc and has started doing more UCAT prep, so just doing things in a different order!

Don’t give up on 2021 entry yet, especially just based on lack of work experience - although I know other things may happen that lead us to think 2022 entry could be an idea. Open mind for now!

Now the coronavirus pandemic is taking slightly less of our time, I have time to feed back info here.
As suggested by a couple of the posters on this thread, I took the time to speak to the lovely people at Oxford Admissions and it appears there may be some issues with the data represented on their webpage, as despite what the graphs may look like, the modal number of A stars for an offer was 11, not 10.

They were kind enough to give me the raw numbers and these confirm my statement - that there are actually more people with less than the average of Astar GCSEs offered a place than those above it.
I will put the numbers here so everyone can see the figures:
5 A stars

Oh my goodness this is so ridiculous .

Basically, if your kid wants to go to Oxford to read Medicine, they need a shedload of GCSE 8/9s.

It really, really, really, really isn't hard!

GANFYD I'm trying to imagine a scenario where you're being interviewed for a place at Oxford for Medicine, and the expression on the face of the tutor.....

Funny but also sad. What a waste of that office staff time although they will have a high threshold of forbearance.

GANFYD as was pointed out back in March, students don’t get fractions of GCSE so the mean is irrelevant as is, in statistical terms, the 1 of ~155 students between 10 and 11 A stars .
Most students will have 10 or more A star equivalent. As shown in the graph.
Does n’t mean though that students should give up trying if they have less than 10, especially if they do particularly well at the BMAT.

I mean yes, to GANFYD being culpable of an atrocious waste of staff time, and to what end? Shame on you GANFYD.

And in fact even with 12 A*, a poor BMAT will do for an applicant, assuming no special circumstances around BMAT time. And for those who do get through the first sift, an applicant will still need to convince the interviewing tutors that they should be in the top third of interviewees to bag a place, which is no mean feat.

I would have thought you'd have been pleased? Wasn't it your suggestion that I talk to them? They were happy to discuss issues. I think they enjoy academic discussions.
And I already have 4 degrees, so applying for any more would be a little bit of overkill, I think

For those worried about work experience, have you seen the virtual WEx available at the minute?
BSMS have set one up
bsmsoutreach.thinkific.com/courses/VWE
and the RCGP (which is approved by the MSC)
www.rcgp.org.uk/observegp?gclid=Cj0KCQjwka_1BRCPARIsAMlUmEojcmV88m-Rv4fGMm9icxo5fe97NNccH5riPrDL-khqfkNZ8qtIB5YaAodUEALw_wcB

I suspect lots have people will have done them, but might be worth a look?

Thanks for the virtual work experience thread @GANFYD. DD has already signed up for the RCGP (be aware that the booklet is ~40 colour pages if you're going to print it out!). I'll pass the other link to her to see what she thinks.

How are everybody's DCs doing at the moment? DD hardly getting any work from school for Biology and Chemistry and is concerned that the difference in provision now could have a huge impact on results next summer. I'm trying to reassure her that everything will be fine, but I have to admit I'm getting increasingly worried too as time goes on.

Thanks for the links GANFYD they look great and we hadn’t come across them yet. DD has already done some WE and volunteering which is lucky but she had so much more planned which now might not happen.

Card1gan - it’s hard for them isn’t it. DD is doing her college work, doing some UCAT work, further reading and listening to podcasts. She’s writing her reflections from her reading and podcasts. She’s just doing her best to crack on. Such a worry but they are all in the same boat I suppose.

GANFYD I'm not clear if your comment is addressed to me or to sendsummer but if to me and I did suggest you spoke to the Pre Clinical admin staff, I don't recall doing so. It's a bit of stretch to suggest that your query generated an 'academic discussion'! More likely they thought Oh, we've got a right one here, but you know, better humour her. As sendsummer says, the poor admin staff have a high threshold of forbearance. Not a job I'd do well in I don't think. It's fair to say that you seem to know astoundingly little about Oxbridge admissions for Medicine and so my advice would be to stick to what you know, and don't stray further - there's enough misinformation flying around the world at the moment without a GANFYD adding to it through MN!

But thank you for not sending any more disturbing PMs, once I asked you to desist.

LaLaFlottes I'm not at all sure that all students are in the same boat. Our own school is making excellent provision for Y12s, as plenty of others will be too.

Well that’s true actually @goodbystranger
DD’s 6th form college is also making excellent provision. She’s working hard and has plenty of support. Let’s hope for those with less support from their schools and colleges that they can return to normal lessons as soon as possible.

Thank you for the links for w/e

@LaLaFlottes Your post highlights my concern as not all students are in the same boat. DD has had one Chemistry task with no set date for it to be handed in. She's had nothing new from Biology, just told to look over the work they've done and answer a past paper. She's started doing some UCAT prep and is working on her research project so isn't completely idle, but that is off her own back and not driven by the school.

While I understand that they can shift grade boundaries to compensate for the disruption they won't be able to allow for the huge differences in the provision of education during this time. This is a real concern.

There are some contrary people on this thread!

I commented on some stats and there were pages of entries telling me I was wrong and suggesting I go and speak to somebody who knew what they were talking about. Oxford was suggested “You could ask Oxford to analyse the data from this year's admissions round I suppose” (thanks for the advice, goodbyestranger but I do think it is rather unfair of you to now suggest that Oxford were not up to having an academic discussion!)

So I do this and they were kind enough to go through the stats and even provide the raw data that clearly shows my statement was correct, but now it seems I was wrong for following the advice given!

People may almost start to feel that is not the maths or stats that are being argued with, but anything I might have to say……….

Some people also questioned the increase in those scoring top grades in GCSEs since the introduction of numerical grades.
There has in fact been an increase of 29% in number of people scoring 9 or more grades better than an A in one sitting (despite more that 30,000 fewer applicants) between 2018 and 2019.

They are not huge numbers, but the introduction of numerical scoring, when an 8 and a 9 are considered the same, has certainly contributed to a statistically significant increase in the number of people making grades that are considered equivalent to an A* by unis.

@Card1gan I’m sorry if my post about all being in the same boat was insensitive. I just keep thinking, well they are all off and missing lessons so they are all in the same position, but you’re absolutely right, depending on the school/college some will be more affected than others.

Hopefully your DD’s work that she’s doing off her own back will mean that once school/college resumes, she’ll be ahead of the game with her research project and UCAT. Is it an EPQ that she’s doing?

Fingers crossed it will all work out for everyone.

Don't worry, I didn't think your post was insensitive @LaFlottes. I just think it's important that people realise the difference in the provision, it's bound to have an effect.

We're in Wales so DD is doing her Research Project for the Welsh Baccalaureate. She's decided to do 5000 words on something to do with breast cancer.