too many people having extra time

[IrmaFayLear]

I didn't quite know where to post this, so I've tried here...

Dd came home in some distress as it turns out that 15 out of 20 people in one of her A Level classes are having extra time for exams.

Dd is upset that it now seems that rather than levelling the playing field for people who genuinely need assistance, a minority are being penalised. Furthermore some of these extra-time people are in "competition" with dd in that they are highly ambitious A* people.

Dd said that one girl told her that "slow processing" is the new watchword and they paid for a private assessment. Dd said that this girl has no processing problems when it comes to quick-fire banter on social media and it's never been mentioned before.

If the exams are deemed too short, then surely give everyone 25% extra time? As it is with this particular subject, it's a case of some people being given 25% less time.

I had a quick google and a)there are masses of sites telling you how to get extra time and how to "fail" the tests and b) Ofqual has said that it is getting out of hand.

It's a subject that given that you know the stuff, any extra time would be most beneficial. Not like Maths where you could sit there all day and be no better off.

So I suppose it would be fair to have no time limit (poor invigilators!) or at least a more generous one, but as someone else suggested, a word limit.

I wish it was that easy my ds has been requesting more time for exam since primary in year 10 now. At primary he was told he was just to slow, the same thing happens now he's just unable to complete the exam which brings his score down.

You say that - I really need extra time for Maths because my capacity to read/retain numbers is so poor. I spend about an hour doing my online banking these days!

But I take your point. I do also agree exams are really far from ideal for most subjects, but it's all a compromise, I guess.

@sendsummer - not denying you could do the analysis, nor that I wouldn't look at a group of 20 students like this and wonder if something was up. But we can't do the analysis right here on this thread, so what remains is speculation.

You don't get a statement because someone has a crystal ball and can see into the future and know the exam was mis-timed.

Presumably something must have suggested that the time would be too short to the parents who requested statements - they're not going to have every single candidate tested on the off-chance. The format of the exam will be known in advance. If they are given (say) two hours to write three essays, the parents/teachers in question must know that their children wouldn't have time to do that, otherwise they wouldn't request additional time.

Er, as opposed to what, exactly?

As opposed to the OP's stated fact that in her daughter's exam, 15 out of 20 students had extra time.

I doubt that is the case with any subject & extra time Irma as it's the quality & accuracy of what is written fir an exam that gets the marks. Not the quantity.

The only exam my DD failed was one such exam. & she forgot her meds even when put in her hand She wrote way more than she needed too as she was blank mentally due to ongoing panic attacks. DD excelled in English, so it would have been well written, perfect spag etc, but she misread the question & wrote a lot of irrelevant stuff, so lost marks.

Ok.

The OP has stated a fact, yes.

And then you have developed a hypothesis about it, as have others on this thread.

Some of us, replying, have explained why your hypotheses don't quite hold together.

Responding that we are also dealing in hypotheticals doesn't seem to me to make a whole lot of sense, especially since (unlike you), we've both laid plain the chain of logic we're using to hypothesise, and we've not pretended that we know anything for certain.

I'm going to leave this now, because I think it could run for a long time, but I'll try to check back later.

Well, of course some pupils have demonstrable needs and are thoroughly entitled to any extra time/adjustments.

What I think is the problem is this extra time business is encouraging those on the margins/the ambitious/the downright dodgy to "have a go" in order to get that extra advantage. Parents and kids talk, and there's this marvellous thing called the internet which gives all sorts of tips. It is documented that private schools quite coincidentally have far more pupils having extra time than Bogstreet Comp, and the race has now filtered down to, if not Bogstreet, then certainly Puddlestreet Comp.

I had extra time in my uni exams due to RSI. I couldn't write quickly enough. In my final finals my hand broke down so much (too late to get proper assessments and support in place) that my lecturer took pity on me and scribed my papers with me herself, as in her words "I could see you had plenty to write, you just couldn't write!"

IF I were so inclined I could have totally coached others how to say the right things to get the concessions. (I'm not, to the point of not accessing help for myself as much as I needed.) From my diagnosis through to exam concessions it was all self-reported- despite being in incredible amounts of pain at times MRI scans showed nothing, but doctors physio and college all took my word for it. So I can well believe that people can and do fake it. A sl with 75% of pupils in concession must need to think carefully about if it's justified or if there is a way to crack down WITHOUT affecting those who truly do need it. And there's the difficulty - how on earth do you do that?

It could simply mean that the standard time allowed for the exam isn't adequate for the majority of people who take it.

There are people whose jobs it is to make sure this isn’t the case. The A-level exams have been completely reformed in the past couple of years. If one subject were suddenly so poorly examined that teachers and parents cottoned on that quickly that extra time was required to the point that within a couple of years 75% of students were qualifying for extra time in that subject and no others, then yeah, it would have been noticed.

SarahandQuack yes of course the thread won’t be doing it. Just quibbling with your statement this sample isn't statistically meaningful. It could be but the analysis has n’t been done.

But Irma you are not listening.

How you think it works just isn't factual, & you incorrectly state that private assessments paid for by parents are giving the wrong DCs an advantage. It just isn't true.

The private assessment if mentioned at all, is probably to see a medical specialist. We did this, but only because DD desperately needed help, her primary weren't getting the part diagnosis that she did have, which resulted in them not taking significant injuries seriously, not understanding that a DC who is in pain all of the time won't react to a painful injury in the same way as a DC who has no pain. This resulted in DD being left to limp around school for a whole day on a fractured foot, so of course it became urgent, but unfortunately the NHS is backed up to the 9s & we had an at least 18 month wait to see the same specialist, so we asked for a private appointment, which happened within 6 weeks, could we afford it, not not really, but for DDs sake we couldn't afford not to

I can understand your DDs frustration, it seems unlikely 75% of the class have SN.
My DS is very dyslexic but I had to push his state comprehensive to ensure he got extra time, while his sister who is also dyslexic but no where near to the same extent as her DB was automatically entered for extra time by her high performing state grammar school without any input from me. To be fair they both have a legitimate need. I think high performing, grammar or private schools are more likely to be on the ball with this and will push for every advantage they can get. To be honest I wish DS secondary school had done the same for him.
I hope your DD does well in her exams. Pupils allocated extra time dont always use it ,my DS thought of it as a punishment!

One of my friends had this at school - 30 yeas ago. Her mum had paid for an educational consultant because her spelling (and possibly reading?) wasn't as good as you would expect for someone as bright as she was, if that makes sense. I always thought it was a bit funny really, because she definitely was not slow, but the mismatch between IQ and spelling was apparently sufficient in her case - she got something like 1/3 extra time, which is a lot, and that applied equally in maths where little spelling was required. We both got equally good grades and went to the same university so I am not bitter, but it was bemusing at the time given that some of the pupils in our class who definitely struggled more with reading didn't have it. I guess that would be my concern really - that it is more the kids of parents who are keen to try to gain an advantage who might benefit over others without engaged parents.

that it is more the kids of parents who are keen to try to gain an advantage who might benefit over others without engaged parents.

Aaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrggggghhhhhh!!!!!

I'm getting so cross with the blatant ignorance in this thread🤬🤬

I repeat it IS NOT A FECKING ADVANTAGE !!!

It is you who is wilfully misunderstanding, RockinHippy. Surely if your dd is a genuine claimant, then you should be annoyed with people seeking to gain an advantage and not levelling the playing field.

It is pointless banging on that no less than scrupulously-honest extra time people exist, because there is massive evidence to the contrary on the internet and Ofqual itself has said that the system needs investigation.

I'm not missing anything Irma I'm just not agreeing based on factual knowledge & experience of how the system works, backed up by many posters below saying the self same thing. YOU are missing, that how the system works has been explained & your DDs appraisal of the situation is wrong as is yours.

Yes of course I'd been extremely peed off if this really could happen as you say it is, but it CANT

I agree it sounds a high proportion, but a combination of factors could be at play there, not least your peed off DD exaggerating the numbers, plus you mentioned a "leafy village state school" this is exactly the kind of school parents of DCs with SN would choose if they have an option.

What I think is the problem is this extra time business is encouraging those on the margins/the ambitious/the downright dodgy to "have a go" in order to get that extra advantage.
You still don't get it, do you.
I knew that DS was bright but he never performed in exams like he should do. The school weren't bothered because the results were good enough. It was only through MN that I got an inkling that there might be a problem.
So I tried to have him assessed. The school said 'not our job, see the GP'. The GP said 'not my job, see the school'. So I paid privately. The diagnosis was that my bright, whip-sharp boy had a Learning Difficulty that nobody had spotted despite being in the lowest 5% of the population. He got by by compensating in other ways. Does he fall into your category of 'those on the margins'? His teachers never spotted it so why do you think that you would?
He got his extra time and went from B grades to A/A* grades.

It is so hard to get these concessions that often it is only clued up, educated middle class parents that know the system well enough and have the time, effort and energy to push for getting what their child needs.

It's a joke and it isn't fair.

Idk2 - so he was doing well. The school were happy. The gp couldn't see a problem. You paid until someone said he needed extra time and he got it and now he gets A*. He was getting Bs anyway. There are plenty of children who find learning so difficult they will never get Bs but they don't get extra time. If the exams are too long for the time given they should be shortened for all children or they should extend the time for everyone.

Sigh, you really don't get it do you Bigboots.

It's a joke and it isn't fair.
What? That teachers can't spot when someone is on the 5th centile?
As someone said upthread we could do with having everyone assessed as a matter of course, like we do for eyesight.

The children who will never get B's still won't get them even if they get extra time because they do not understand the content.

If they are finding learning difficult becasue of an SplD (whether it be autism, dyslexia, dyspraxia or slow processing) then they should be entitled to extra time. If its simply becasue they are not clever academically then they shouldn't. The system is supposed to help children with disabilities to demonstrate what they are capable of. At the moment it doesn't because too many children are not getting the concessions they need.