Oxford open day

[Lovemusic33]

Hi, hope I’m posting in the right place.
My dd has been asked to go to oxford open day next week with several other students. Dd is in only in year ten (sitting GCSE next year) and has Aspergers, most of the other students who are attending at six form students. Dd is very bright and predicted mainly 8’s and 9’s in GCSE so her teacher feels it would be good for her to join them for the open day just to get an idea of where she could go in a few years. She’s very excited about going. I have just received a letter from the school asking dd to pick 3 subjects so she can attend talks on those subjects. I’m now worried that she will be left to attend these talks on her own. Should I be asking her teacher if he plans on staying with her? Her Aspergers can cause anxiety and disorientation.

Has anyone else’s child attended? Is it pretty easy to navigate?

My suggestion for this particular subset of applicants would be to go and look around on your own away from the Open Days so that you don't add to the crowd and don't suck the life blood out of those who volunteer.

(DD came back and was a bit grrr about one Y11 applicant there with her Dad, monopolizing a q and a session).

It’s not just the subject and college sessions — even the sandwich shops are swamped!

I think it is selfish for anyone under year 12 to attend. There is limited space and opportunity to speak to current students and staff and a lot of year 12 pupils will be pushed out. Wait your turn for goodness sake!

😐😐😐 not sure why people are calling me or dd selfish. The school took her not me. The 6th form teacher made the choice, paid for her train ticket and took her. I’m not “one of those parents”, I wouldn’t have even considered taking her myself but she was offered to go with the school, for free and she went.

She found it really useful and didn’t find it too busy.

Not sure why people are getting funny about it? She didn’t steel anyone’s place.

Anyway, good luck to anyone who has a dc applying to oxford. I shall be leaving this thread now and will hopefully be on uni threads in a few years when I’m allowed to discus my dd going.

LoveMusic if your DS isn’t year 12 she will have her turn. It isn’t hard to grasp what the issue is here.

I'm a little by the vehemence of people suggesting that open days should only be for year 12s! Particularly at this time of year. We are local so it was easy (once I realised they were on!) to send my yr 11 daughter along last week. It had been really bugging me that she's been worn down by her GCSEs and starting to get a little "what's the point?" about everything.

Having been to some relevant subject talks she's got a fresh enthusiasm for the idea of university, been able to rule out a couple of courses we'd suggested she consider, and now knows what to be looking for on other universities' web sites. By this time next year she'll be needing to finalise a decision between Oxford and Cambridge for that application, not having a first look around. (she'll probably be applying for choral awards which have an even earlier deadline)

Someone like the OP's daughter will, I hope, have really benefitted from hearing what it is like to study certain subjects, at a stage where it can help her plan her 6th form choices.

Medical admissions are a somewhat different beast, but ... My husband was at an open day (elsewhere) a few weeks ago where one of his recurrent messages was "no you won't be interviewed for medicine with those GCSE results", and at least some students seemed surprised to be told that (lower English results for example I think). Now when is the right time for students to be alerted to subject prerequisites and minimum standards - a few months before application when they can't change their A levels, or in advance of GCSE results and before they finalise A level choices?

Someone who has the opportunity to look round an open day "early" and no guarantee of being able to do so on the "right" occasion due to distance and cost, should certainly jump at it, in my opinion.

I had noted that the Cambridge web site very specifically said yr 12 only. The Oxford site did not. So I haven't attempted to take my daughter to Cambridge yet - but it had bothered me that there didn't seem to be anything I could take her to over the last year. Where I grew up (large city, non-UK), university open days were multipurpose events and I went to several while I was growing up just to look around and see stuff they were putting on (sciences mainly), prior to more focussed visits in my last couple of years at school.

To the OP - very best wishes to your daughter, hope she can "stay sane" through the next year and then feel well motivated for further study with some idea of her longer term goals.

At the time of the Oxford and Cambridge Open Days in July GCSE results aren't out. It's just premature. It might not be premature to go for a day out with family but it's premature to barge in adding to the pressure tutors and helpers are already under.

Also, now much thinking does a student actually have to do? If you're in the frame - after GCSEs - whack in an application to a college you like the look of in the place you prefer. The more you analyse the thing the more disappointed you'll be if the tutors decline to make you an offer. It's probably a really good idea not to overthink it.

Cambridge says Y12 for a reason. It's very grabby to go and elbow others out just because you can.

That should say how much not now much.

Also choral awards are on a stand alone application and there's no guarantee that even if you have an award at a particular college your place will be there - it has no bearing on the academic application at all. You are equally likely to be pooled, with or without the award. So that's a red herring.

So what me is why so many people seem to think that their DC is so special that they need multiple viewings. There are thousands upon thousands of applicants each year, most of whom are very clever and most with 8s and 9s and A* and all that jazz. Some parents need to get a bit of perspective.

I'm rather taken aback by the hostility in this thread. The OP's initial question seems entirely reasonable, with the concern for a younger daughter's visit clear and what she would get out of the day. It seems well intentioned at least for a teacher to offer spare capacity to other students whom they think will benefit, and who are we to question that judgement call.

Certainly the tone of some of these responses doesn't represent the university's attitude, and I say that as some who was 10 years an admissions coordinator and 5 years an admissions tutor within the university.

Welcome to mumsnet Frankj. It can get a bit feisty on here sometimes!

I think it is easier if a prospective student has older siblings. I assume Goodbye Stranger's DD will have visited siblings and have a reasonably up to date view of Oxford and Durham Universities and presumably what she wants from from her course. It also sounds as if she is very likely to get one or the other, so a quite different position to many.

It was different for us. DH went to Oxford and I went to London, but our information was out of date, we knew very little about life on a campus University and DC's priorities would be different. Even then it was easier for us as we had both been to University and their school was very well informed.

I would really recommend OPs DD going to an early open day or two at nearby Universities, to get a feel of what she does and does not want. This will help narrow down options.

We did a mix. With DS we did self guided tours (there is always someone in the department office willing to answer course questions) of Exeter/Bristol/Bath and then York when we happened to be in the vicinity. I kept an eye out for things that DD would be interested in (sport, sport and more sport) which later helped inform her short list. DS went to London options on his own, as did DD, because they were more of a known quantity. I went with DS to Warwick, mainly for logistical reasons, and then split up so we got to see more. (He did the subject talk, I went to the talk on studying abroad etc.) It was both interesting, especially some of the briefing on how they select and what they want to see in a PS, and useful to see what appealed to DS and what did not. You never know what very quick decisions they may need to make after results come out and the more informed a sounding board you can be, the better. We both went to Cambridge, mainly because I wanted a day out. Again interesting, and useful to know what appealed to DS and what did not. If he had been totally in love with the University I might have suggested he take a year out and reapply.

DD was applying for medicine. By the time we had completed the spreadsheet of places she might want to go to and who might interview her there were only three options, so no need to visit, especially given that they interview. Frankly she was going to have to be happy if anyone offered her a place. Luckily two did. One she liked, and the other very foolishly cancelled the promised post interview tour on the basis that one uber confident interviewee said it was not needed and DD felt unable to object. Choosing which University is a huge decision and DD found it easy to opt for the known, rather than unknown option.

OP don't worry. Follow your instincts, but also remember there may be interviews, and probably offer days. You have five choices and can only go to one. Desk research on the course etc is often more important.

Sorry, I thought I was on the open day thread. However my advice to follow your instincts remains. We are all different, our children are all different, and the relationships we have with them are all different. there is no right and wrong.

It is a difficult one. Clearly universities want to attract applicants and Oxbridge are always in the firing line for raising aspiration and widening participation.

But... as Pythonesque observes, some students seem to be getting the message that wanting to go to Oxbridge and getting in are the same thing. And if you don't get in or even get an interview you've been discriminated against, whether it's because you went to private school/state school/had rubbish GCSEs....

It’s probably already been said , in which case apologies but the step up from GCSE to A level can be absolutely massive. Doing well in GCSE which is often little more than a test of memory and some limited application ( dont shoot me.. I know its not that simplistic) does not mean that your DC will find the A level in that subject a sure thing. So how to know that they are pursuing a sensible ambition down a particular career path?There is a huge shuffle of the subject cards at my DTs’ school in autumn term of L6 . Thinking you know what you want to do at the end of Y11 is a surely more uncertain place to be than at the end of y12 ( which can also be fairly shaky I’m finding!!) . I can see both sides and its great to hear FrankJ from the inside. I think there can be a danger of setting a course for our DC that then becomes hard to change though. Full disclosure, went to Exeter and St Andrews Open Day, took DD to Cambridge Masterclass , stayed in parent only talks and didn’t interrogate tutors. My DT1 did much better in GCSE than she was expecting and only started considering an application for Oxbridge post results. It would have freaked her out ( and quite possibly burnt her out) to be doing the stuff she has in y11. Each to their own though, we all know our own DC best.

I think my attitude is hardened by the knowledge that prospective students at a talk (not Oxford) couldn’t get in because it was so full. I feel sorry for those people who only have one chance to visit for an open day and hear a talk who don’t get to hear important stuff because of a multitude of parents, siblings and year 10 pupils filling seats. I really think that’s fair comment.

If a school has decided to take a year 10 student along with their group of year 12s then I would assume they have a fair idea of how able that student is. It wasn't the OP that made that decision. As none of her family have ever been to uni let alone Oxford she is precisely the type of student Oxford is keen to attract.

We all know the reality that an Oxbridge application needs a different offering for a personal statement than many other unis and if the first time you ever hear this is at the end of yr 12 you are pretty much behind the pack by then.

I don't think it is the case of a pushy parent here rather than a teacher seeking to inspire. It reminds me of a TV documentary last year but I can't recall the name where a year 10 had aspirations of being a chef like his grandad but after his teacher took him to a uni science event was then going to aim to go into medicine.

The teacher has clearly seen something in OP's DD and I assume is encouraging her to consider options that might not have occurred to her and sometimes that needs a bit of a drip feed. Maybe by year 12 she will consider she too could apply there having it become familiar to her because of an early visit.

Having seen it and liked it she may now be researching potential courses etc and having a potential goal may well make her realise that her gcses are a very important part of a Oxbridge (and Oxford in particular) application.

I do agree that parents should only be allowed into talks if all potential students have places in them first (including slightly younger ones). Luckily as DS's course os one of the highly subscribed ones all students and parents got into the talk venue with seats to spare as they used the exam hall.

We read so often of the newspaper articles and threads where people feel Oxbridge is not for the likes of us. Some of the comments on here could very well make the OP feel this and I am sure noone wants that to happen.

I think that’s fair comment OKBobble. I was making a wider point about younger pupils but I really meant the ones taken there by their (pushy) parents. OP’s dd’s example is different.

It is @howwudufeel. Most of the “cool your jets” advice here is coming from parents who have had DC go through the process from what I can gather ( as I have myself). As well as the taking up space in talks and monopolising tutors thing I wouldn’t want my y10 reading a “Chunder/pull/breakdown” bar chart in a group kitchen, or looking at what was decorating the door of the sexual health rep on an accommodation tour, whether they were superbright or special or not. I’m now thoroughly confused by the Oxbridge 2020, Oxford Open Day and Open day did you go thread !

Glad you are confused by the threads because I can’t keep track of my own responses!

This thread has been useful for me personally as I was unaware that Cambridge limited their open days to Year 12 and mature applicants. I don't know where a student who applied unsucessfully to Oxford in Year 12 and in a gap year (Year 13) decides to apply to Cambridge fits in that picture. Their stance seems somewhat restrictive, but I am unaware of what resourcing/demand issues that they might currently be facing.

At one of the recent open days (Weds 3rd July) my department's intended lecture room (capacity 360) filled up including some standing, so we lived streamed the talks into a second lecture theatre (capacity 110) which then filled and then we live streamed into a further lecture theorem. Overall we think we had 600 or so people. We are lucky in having a modern large building, so this was possible. In previous years it might well have meant asking parents to voluntarily leave, so we might prioritize students, or might even have to mandate that. Most parents leave goodnaturedly, some are more uppity.

I mention all this to explain the organic nature of organizing these open days. Every year, in light of logistically issues we've had, we will discuss if we need to do anything differently. Generally we have been anti making registration necessary for the departmental talks. But in that perhaps we're just a few years behind Cambridge.

Many of the popular subjects were running frequent talks in both their departments and in colleges, with advance booking required for those they knew were likely to be oversubscribed. I'm not sure where all these hoards of year 10s and 11s were, although there were a lot of younger overseas students on summer school visits, as my DD didn't have more than 2 or 3 other year 12s with her on any of the college tours she did. I think the 17 year old American who had planned a holiday with his grandparents around UK open days should be allowed to bring them with him.

Meet the tutor sessions made it abundantly clear that they would only answer questions from the young people themselves and there were probably only 6 -10 students in each session. She says she had similar experiences at the other open days she has been to.

Frankj I don’t think that anyone is criticising the universities. It’s the behaviour of some parents which is questionable. From my point of view my DS who went to Oxford with his college had a wonderful time and the one to one tours were excellent. My worry is that some parents do monopolise the volunteers and even the Q&As at subject talks. They are perhaps used to getting a lot of attention from their dc’s schools and expect the same at open days.